Who said Wither Bones was so great??

[magnate]

So I finally get some Lamia Queens equipped with skull staves and research Thaum 6 and send them in against the undead hordes.

Pffffffshhhh. I'd rather have spent the money on priests.

Wither Bones costs FIFTY fatigue, so they can cast it three times (tops) before passing out.

Its accuracy is PANTS. It frequently misses altogether, and I've never seen it hit more than two undead, even when there are hundreds of them on the battlefield.

What am I missing? This is supposed to be THE anti-undead spell: no MR save, armour negating, etc. What's up?

CC

Well I've played Ermor and been on the other end of some serious Wither Bones-ing, and I'm here to tell you that it's a nightmare for the receiver.

Given that undead normall come in Huge Hordes(TM), accuracy doesn't tend to be an issue; you're always going to hit <i>someting</i>. But, like priests and Banish, you're going to need a critical mass of casters to do any good. You've got to attrite them quickly (or have a rock-solid shield of melee fighters to hide behind) before their numbers overwhelm you.

Give your casters some death gems or another death boosting item to keep the fatigue cost down and increase the number of castings. Or, if you have easier access to large numbers of priests, they may be the better way to go anyway.

And there's always the luck factor. Try it a few more times before you give up on it. I bet you see better results next time.

Mark

[magnate]

Hmm, I'd forgotten about using gems to reduce fatigue cost. How does that work? Will it automatically use one gem to reduce cost if there are any in the caster's inv, or do you have to specify it somehow? What happens if I want to use the gem for a spell which needs it, instead of using it to lower fatigue cost? If the spells are scripted in the wrong order, does it use the gem to lower fatigue and then leave the caster unable to cast the other spell?

What's the fatigue reduction, is it 50%?

Well, he goes some more trying ...

CC

[Taqwus]

Any caster who has gems in his inventory -- gems of the primary path of the spells he casts, anyway -- will automatically consider using them.

Using gems above and beyond the base required raises the effective level of the caster for fatigue reduction and effectiveness, IIRC. Having one level above what's needed cuts base casting fatigue (NOT including encumberance fatigue) to 1/2 normal, two levels 1/3 normal, etc.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Don't forget Wither Bones is unresistable and can kill the toughest undead. Mass banishment is very effectiev vs hordes of Soulless, but definitely consider Wither Bones if you're facing things like Ghosts or Wights.

[Boron]

magnate said:
So I finally get some Lamia Queens equipped with skull staves and research Thaum 6 and send them in against the undead hordes.

Pffffffshhhh. I'd rather have spent the money on priests.

Wither Bones costs FIFTY fatigue, so they can cast it three times (tops) before passing out.

Its accuracy is PANTS. It frequently misses altogether, and I've never seen it hit more than two undead, even when there are hundreds of them on the battlefield.

What am I missing? This is supposed to be THE anti-undead spell: no MR save, armour negating, etc. What's up?

CC

i was the one who said that LOL.

since lamia queens are NATURE mages too you could script them to eagle eyes , wither bones .
furthermore give them the 2 handed death +1 staff for 10 deathgems etc.

so thinking before posting such "nonsense" would be sometimes great

[magnate]

Boron said:

i was the one who said that LOL.

since lamia queens are NATURE mages too you could script them to eagle eyes , wither bones .
furthermore give them the 2 handed death +1 staff for 10 deathgems etc.

so thinking before posting such "nonsense" would be sometimes great

Hey buddy try not to be *too* offensive. If you read my first post you'll see they are already equipped with "the 2 handed death +1 staff".

I hadn't thought of casting Eagle Eyes first though - thank you for that suggestion.

I love this game - building up an encyclopaedic knowledge of spells is the only way to optimise your play. Must look up Mass Banishment ....

Incidentally, only 1 in 16 LQs will be D4. Another 3 in 8 will be D3 though, which is better. Geo said D3+staff (ie. D4 cast) gets "~30" fatigue - why isn't it just halved, like when using a gem?? If they use a gem as well, is it halved again, or does it just count as D5 cast, ie. 1/3 fatigue?

CC

[Pickles]

magnate said:
Incidentally, only 1 in 16 LQs will be D4. Another 3 in 8 will be D3 though, which is better. Geo said D3+staff (ie. D4 cast) gets "~30" fatigue - why isn't it just halved, like when using a gem?? If they use a gem as well, is it halved again, or does it just count as D5 cast, ie. 1/3 fatigue?

CC

You need to add the basic spellcasting enc to the fatigue cost of the spell. This is 3 for a LQ. So 28 per casting after 4 = 112 so 2 sleeping rounds then she is awake again.
You could shoot & scoot after 3 shots.

Adding a gem increases effective caster level so it would be 1/3*50 + 3 or 19. Gem use is a punt though.

A little bit of reinvigoration like boots of the messenger will let her cast 5 in a row. (I think it's 4 reinvig)
Alternatively, add in another 1-2 N3 casters casting Relief which is ench 6 & restores quite a bit of fatigue (20-30 IIRC) to EVERYONE.

Pickles

[magnate]

Pickles said:
You need to add the basic spellcasting enc to the fatigue cost of the spell. This is 3 for a LQ. So 28 per casting after 4 = 112 so 2 sleeping rounds then she is awake again.
You could shoot & scoot after 3 shots.

Sadly it's even worse than that, since LQs are cold blooded - they don't like Cold 2 or Cold 3 at all! Ho hum.

Does the increased caster level affect fatigue arithmetically, ie.

+1 = 1/2 fatigue
+2 = 1/3
+3 = 1/4
+4 = 1/5
+5 = 1/6

etc.? Not that there's much point beyond about +2, but I thought I'd ask ...

CC

[Tuna]

magnate said:

Does the increased caster level affect fatigue arithmetically, ie.

+1 = 1/2 fatigue
+2 = 1/3
+3 = 1/4
+4 = 1/5
+5 = 1/6

etc.? Not that there's much point beyond about +2, but I thought I'd ask ...

Yes, it does, and with some spells and an assload of gems/communicants there is very much point in above +2... Ever seen pythium cast 2 master enslaves in the opening turn? (boots of quicknees, matrix, lotsa communicants and gems)

Also, someone already mentioned this, but I really wanna stress it: with access to lamia queens, why dont you just relief with abandon for the first 5 turns (perhaps 2 or even 3 relifers, that way you get 0 fatigue for the 5 first turns, and after that there shouldn't be much undead left.)