Shipyard Mod Idea

[Lastseer]

One of the cool things about some past sci-fi movies has been the CGI when they show a giant starbase in space contructing a ship in space (I think they did this in one of the Star Trek movies with the enterprise). However in SEIV almost all the construction is done planetside by planetary shipyards. Yes, I realize you can put shipyards on ships. But they are slower than planetside based ones, making them useful only when you have no planet near the fighting or are building a ring/sphere world.

I'd like to move the construction back to space stations. So I'm thinking I'd make my mod so planet-based ship yards only construct about one third to one fourth of their current speed, and the space station components can construct twice as fast as they do now.

Then at the beginning of the game, expansion with colony ships is not as fast and furious, and there is a calculated decision of whether to use the planetary ship yard to build a space station and use that to build colony/attack ships or pump out some of those first or just build the colony ships at the slower planetary rates.

I'd also mod the starbase research tree to give you larger construction components than the 400kt base one for the larger space station sizes. (E.G. a 800kt component that produces 50% faster and a 1200kt component that produces 100% faster).

Also since this key component is moved off-planet, they would need to be defended slightly differently (they could normally be as much 4-5 spaces away from the planet where the weapons platforms are). This would make satellite defense a little more important and also allow for the strategy of attacking an oponent just to wipe out the production bases and move on. Similar to a pearl harbor sneak attack (just get the carriers) or an allied bombing raid on production centers. Now you pratically have to defeat the entire planet defense structure. (which is still there but defends all the planetside facilities)

This makes raiding as opposed to full war a lot more feasible.

What do you people think? A good idea?

[raynor]

I think it is an interesting idea. But I wonder how well the AI might adjust to such a major change to a fundamental aspect of the game. It may turn out that the AI wouldn't perform as well with your mod. I don't know that for a fact. But I thought I might warn you before you start on this.

When I think of a planetary space yard having a faster build rate than the space yard in a starbase, I explain it thusly: A planetary shipyard builds faster because it has the resources of the entire planet behind it. Because it is a planet, you can house more people and factories to help speed the building process. I actually tend to visualize planetary space yards building the actual ships in orbit.

Right now, planetary space yards build faster based on the population of the planet and their happiness. I personally think it is a mistake to introduce a ship or base based shipyard which can build ships faster than a planet whose population is 2000 M--presumably all of whom are, in some way or other, helping to build those ships faster.

[Possum]

That is an INTERESTING idea!

I like the idea of raiding, it's something I do a lot myself.

One of my goals for very early mid-game is to send a couple expeditions on slave raids, to capture populations that breathe different atmospheres than my own people. This enables me to have more un-domed colonies without all the bother of researching 7 levels of Planet Utilization and then waiting 3 years. These are very much raids, as the main goal is just to get in with minimum fighting, grab a small planet, herd the folks into a transport, and then haul *** for home.

I've also used raids for general harassment purposes, but your idea is actually far more appealing then any of these. I like it!

And I think construction in orbit would also have some serious advantages, if only in not having to fly the completed ship up out of the planet's gravity well...

[Lastseer]

Well, you bring up two points.

The first about the AI, I already considered, even though I didn't mention it in my post. It may in fact hamstring me. Because the suggested mod would probably be very easy and quick to make otherwise. Testing would also not be so bad. If the AI handled it ok (it might, it does build space yards on space stations now) then I'd be all set. If the AI didn't. I'd can the project if there was no interest from anyone else. Modifying all the base AIs and all the specific races is more time than I'd otherwise spend.

The second point I disagree with. I see your point, not sure that 2 billion people can actually all help construct a frigate. There is some point near the end where only so many people are involved and that could (should???) take place off planet. Right now SEIV pays no consideration (other than Space ports) on how resources get from one location to another. And If the actual construction is going on in space (by your abstraction) with a planetary space yard, then I'd like to be able to attack those ships, or the partially constructed ships without having to wipe out almost the entire planet in the process.

Bottom line is I'd just like to create a new kind of flavor to some games. Play some with and some without the mod.

If space stations are the best way to produce ships and they become a lot more vulnerable to raids, it would change the strategy more towards building defense ships and creating limited raids. This would also tip the game a little more towards infrastructure building than large scale warfare. Possibly it'd make it harder to wipe out the AI quickly too, because it takes longer to build ships to blockade his world. People could also scrap their planet-side shipyards after they build a station-based one, and use the station one for ships, while building an extra facility planetside and then, since the planet queue is not needed for ships, build extra weapon platforms or planet-based defense with that queue.

[Tenryu]

I think your idea has some really interesting possibilities, Lastseer. Actually sounds like it might be fun if it works.

[seer]

Space Yard Mod 1.0 by (Last)seer.

[capnq]

I've always assumed the "planetary" shipyards were actually orbital. After all, the sectors are big enough to include any moons' orbits. At the scale of the game, I think "Low Earth Orbit" is within the spaces the planet takes on the tactical map.

While being able to do surgical strikes on the shipyards would be neat, I'm not sure how you'd implement it. An orbital shipyard would just be part of the massive "satellite group" in close orbit around the planet, so finding the individual satellite representing the spaceyard could be a problem.

OTOH, we already have orbital facilities in the form of Bases with the Shipyard component. How can we differentiate them from the Spaceyard facility?

[Aussie Gamer]

I think that a fatser rate of production on Space based yards is a good idea, as if you think about it you can gain access to the entire ship. This would allow for a faster construction of ships.

See Massive Ship Yards for my ideas on that subject.

I don't think that slowing done the planet based ones though is a good idea though, at the start of the game you only get yards 1, not very fast. With this level of tech at the start planets should build faster. Think about now in the USA. They build on the planet. But in the future mankind would most likely build massive ships off-planet, higher tech!!

[DirectorTsaarx]

Maybe a solution is to add the faster space-based shipyards as higher tech areas on the research tree. In other words, continue the progression for Space Yards to levels 4-6; include both the regular-sized yards, with progressively faster rates, and the massive yards; maybe continue the tree to level 9, with faster rates for the massive yards. Something like:

Space Yards level 4: Space Yard IV, Massive Space Yard I

Space Yards level 5: Space Yard V, Massive Space Yard II

etc.

BTW - I really like the Temporal Space Yards the way they are. Building at a rate of 9000 min/org/rad per turn (after bonuses, of course)... now THAT'S the way to defeat your enemies!!!

[raynor]

I wish there were some way you could design a massive space yard so that as a whole, it has a production of, for example, 6000 per turn. But it requires four components on four starbases to get that rate. Otherwise, if you only have three, you get 4500, two 3000 and one 1500, or some such arrangement.

I wonder if you would twist the RingWorld code to do this? I guess I just want a Massive Space Yard to be truly *massive*...