No system shield for you

Droplede · #1 June 5th, 2001, 09:27 PM

So, in a solo game, my home system had a System Gravitational Shield Facility on a functional and happy planet. A few turns later, I had just built my first black-hole creator ship and, being contrary by nature, thought it would be fun to see if the shield actually stopped it. Saved the game, sent it to my home star and ... BAMF. No more home system, despite the Shield Facility. Did a triple-take, reloaded the save game, and successfully reproduced the destruction.

What gives? Anybody else ever see a case where the facility didn't work -- or DID work, for that matter? I'm a bit troubled by this.

DirectorTsaarx · #2 June 5th, 2001, 09:55 PM

Could be a case where the game engine only checks to see if another player tries to create a black hole in that system. Try this: gift the ship to another empire; then, take control of that empire and try to create a black hole in your system.

Regardless of the outcome of your experiment, let MM know about the bug...

Droplede · #3 June 5th, 2001, 09:59 PM

Good idea. Could indeed be the case. I also realized that the system shield was on my Ringworld. That could be messing with it, too.

I'm going to do an extensive case test of every system and planet destroyer in the game with various combination of shield facilities and friend/enemy testing. I'll post my results when I'm finished. I've always wanted to try modding the system shield facility to add the anti-nova ability and see if it actually will stop Stellar Nucleonic Torpedos, too, so I'll post that result as well.

Droplede · #4 June 6th, 2001, 04:33 AM

Hmmmm. This is distressing. In a test, I tried out nebula and black-hole creators in a system with a System Gravitational Shield Facility. Both worked on one of my own ships, despite the shield facility, duplicating my first error. So I transfered control of the ships to another player, with a war treaty between us, to try again, and the systems still blew up. Made no difference friend or foe.

I was running with the TDM ModPack in Version 1.35. I'll try to duplicate the experiment in the base 1.35 Version and in different types of system. I'll send MM my findings.

Has ANYBODY had a system shield facility work correctly? Please post.

By the way: Tested tectonic bombs against planets with Planetary Gravitational Shield Facilities, too. The shields worked just fine. But in one case, they worked too well. Had a shield facility on the moon of a gas giant. Sent the tectonic bomb ship to the sector, told it to blow up the gas giant (not the shielded moon), and the shield still protected it. It seems you only need one per sector, regardless that the tectonic bomb dialog screen makes you select a specific planet in the sector.

[This message has been edited by Droplede (edited 06 June 2001).]

DirectorTsaarx · #5 June 6th, 2001, 05:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Droplede:
Hmmmm. This is distressing. In a test, I tried out nebula and black-hole creators in a system with a System Gravitational Shield Facility. Both worked on one of my own ships, despite the shield facility, duplicating my first error. So I transfered control of the ships to another player, with a war treaty between us, to try again, and the systems still blew up. Made no difference friend or foe.

I was running with the TDM ModPack in Version 1.35. I'll try to duplicate the experiment in the base 1.35 Version and in different types of system. I'll send MM my findings.

Has ANYBODY had a system shield facility work correctly? Please post.

I've never taken the opportunity to test it, although I've built a system shield facility...

quote:
Originally posted by Droplede:
By the way: Tested tectonic bombs against planets with Planetary Gravitational Shield Facilities, too. The shields worked just fine. But in one case, they worked too well. Had a shield facility on the moon of a gas giant. Sent the tectonic bomb ship to the sector, told it to blow up the gas giant (not the shielded moon), and the shield still protected it. It seems you only need one per sector, regardless that the tectonic bomb dialog screen makes you select a specific planet in the sector.

[This message has been edited by Droplede (edited 06 June 2001).]

Well, didn't Star Wars: Return of the Jedi put the second Death Star's shield on a moon of Endor? Could be a similar idea (i.e., the Planetary Gravitational Shield can be projected on all planets/moons in a sector).

Baron Munchausen · #6 June 6th, 2001, 08:43 PM

It's not that suprising that no one has run across this before. Stellar manipulation is a late game tech, and the AI doesn't use it very often anyway. Most people don't get that far in a game before abandoning it to try some new data file tweak.

It's also not suprising that Planetary Gravity Shields work in an entire sector. The Black Hole or Nebula preventers are supposed to work in an entire SYSTEM, after all, even if they don't right now.

The ability description is not very clear. It could easily be some "field" effect that covers all planets in a sector, though.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 06 June 2001).]

Nitram Draw · #7 June 6th, 2001, 08:56 PM

The abilities file doesn't exactly provide a detailed description of how the abilities work.
Do the other abilities work, ie stop nebulae creator, stop star destroyer etc?

Droplede · #8 June 7th, 2001, 12:43 AM

Yeah, Baron. I consider the one Planetary Shield per sector a feature, as opposed to a bug. Just thought it worth noting.

I completed a completely unmodded test in 1.35, and came up with the same results: nebula creators and black hole creators both will work in a system with a System Gravitational Shield Facility. Presence of ring or sphereworld in the system makes no difference, either -- not that they logically would, I was just trying to be thorough.

Martin: I haven't tried modding the facility with the "Stop Star Destroyer" ability yet to test it, but that's next on the list. Wouldn't hold out much hope for it, as two of the other system-scope "Stop xxxx" abilities don't seem to.

Haven't heard from Aaron yet. Gee, you don't think he's busy, do ya?

And I'm not sure this is a super vital issue, given Baron's point that these things rarely become useful in the scope of a normal game.

Again: Anybody out there have a system-wide shield facility work?

<edit: Hmmmm. Y'know, I probably should try assigning the "Stop nebula creator" ability to something else in the system, huh? Make sure it's the ability that isn't working as opposed to the facility itself -- not that it's too likely, but still ....

[This message has been edited by Droplede (edited 06 June 2001).]

Kimball · #9 June 7th, 2001, 02:16 PM

Assuming that the game allows a player to destroy his own system, that would be the ultimate weapon against an unbeatable armada.

"If I can't have this system, no one can have this system. And I am taking you out with me!"

A system of only few planets is well worth destroying a fleet of dreadnaughts, baseships and battleships. You could even lay a trap for nasty empires.

PvK · #10 June 8th, 2001, 12:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
IMO the shield thing is not a big deal, but it may be for others. For game balance, there should be a defence for EVERY offense - that ol' Rock-Paper-Scissors thing.....

I bet it will become a bigger deal to you if you ever play a multi-player game to that point. There comes a point where this becomes a very important issue. Of course, you can also do the SE3 methods of mining and defending suns, but still... it's lame to spend heaps of time and resources building a facility that doesn't work due to a bug.

PvK