Fleet orders vs ship orders

Dragonlord · #1 June 27th, 2001, 04:11 AM

Question:

Let's say I design a missile ship and set the strategy for that kind of ship to "Maximum weapons range". Then I create a fleet which includes variuos other ships (PD, etc) as well as some of these missile ships. The Fleet orders are "Bull formation, Optimal weapons range". I then send the fleet to attack something in strategic combat (PBEM). Will the missile ships follow the strategy of their ship design, or of the fleet?

If they follow fleet orders, they may get too close to the action and need more shields. And their "ship type" orders would only ever kick in if they attack something solo (no fleet).
However if it turns out that fleet orders always supercede specific ship type strategy ...why use ship type strayegy ?

Also, under empire options, strategies, you can set what type of units will break your formation. Does anyone know how exactly this works and how to use it to your advantage?

Suicide Junkie · #2 June 27th, 2001, 04:16 AM

quote:
Also, under empire options, strategies, you can set what type of units will break your formation. Does anyone know how exactly this works and how to use it to your advantage?

Try using it to have your Missile ships break off and follow their "max range" strat, rather than following the beamer fleet in.

Or, try the opposite, breaking off the beamers so they can swarm more effectively, and leaving the fleet of Missile ships to maintain max range.

Phoenix-D · #3 June 27th, 2001, 04:38 AM

That won't work, because you can only set planets, ships, satelites, fighters, colony ships, transports, etc to break formation. But your fleet is composed totally of ships!

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord · #4 June 27th, 2001, 07:30 PM

SJ:

How do I order attack ships (just missile ships, not ALL attack ships) to break formation?

And my original question stands: when, and if so, for how long, do fleet orders supercede ship type orders/strategies?

Suicide Junkie · #5 June 27th, 2001, 08:37 PM

quote:
How do I order attack ships (just missile ships, not ALL attack ships) to break formation?

I was just suggesting that you classify your missile ships as transports. (or, alternatively the beam ships)

Whether you can do that by giving them a design type of "transport", or make them using freighter hulls, you should be able to do it somehow.

Then, the ships would break formation on turn 1 of battle, and proceed to their objectives independently, following the only remaining strategy, their individual one.

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads.
-<Download V1.6>-
-<Download compatible EMPs>-
Visit My Homepage

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 27 June 2001).]

PurpleRhino · #6 June 27th, 2001, 10:07 PM

Part of me wonders if the option to break formation works... Heres my reasoning, if a ship is to break formation, it should use its own, default, strategy. BUT if I include a ship that is SUPPOSE to break formation, it doesn't.(All my strats have EVERYTHING break formation) For example, I had a troop transport that wouldn't attack the planet while in the fleet, but would if I removed it from the fleet first. So my question is, what is 'break formation' suppose to do? Oh, and while I'm talking about strats... can we PLEASE get the new options (damage limits, and damage till weapons gone) put in the files?!?

Suicide Junkie · #7 June 28th, 2001, 01:42 AM

How is a ship classified as a transport? By the hull?
If so, you could use large transports, and put missiles on them. The extra space that has to go to cargo can store spare fighters for your carriers or troops for the assault transports.

You missile ships could then be ordered to break formation and stay at max range.

Dubious · #8 June 28th, 2001, 01:57 AM

Uh, guys? How does a PLANET break formation? I mean, how could it BE in a formation is the first place?

The way I read the AI_Strategy file, your ships/units break formation when these are your targets.

Interpreting here, I would hazard the guess that if part of a fleet, the fleet "break formation" rules are applied. If merely a "group" (ie fighters) then the ship rules.

Can anyone confirm?

Also, the "attack ship" etc. would be based upon the design "type" classification. The AI uses this when putting together it's fleets and Groups. The Human player is of course free to ignore the typing, but this may account for some of the confusing results when the AI applies rules.

------------------
"All sources are dubious until their reliabilty has been repeatedly proven. Even then their information should be independently verified." - The unwritten "spooks handbook"

[This message has been edited by Dubious (edited 28 June 2001).]

Dragonlord · #9 June 28th, 2001, 02:25 AM

Dubious,

I tend(ed) to interpret break formation the same way. e.g. if we see this thing, break formation. Others say that it should be " if these things are in your fleet" (e.g transports) they will break formation (flee to the corner). That seems plausible too.

All in all the whole area is still a mystery to me.

Phoenix-D · #10 June 28th, 2001, 03:30 AM

According to the manual..

"Formation
Types the break formation These selections determine whether these types of vehicles will break formation when they are in combat. By default, all vehicles that are in a fleet will be part of that fleet's formation when combat begins. However, some vehicles you do not want to stay in formation while the rest of the group engages the enemy. "

Phoenix-D