Unique Mod Idea: would you play it?

[Suicide Junkie]

After having read this Sentinel SF book, I was thinking that the basic physics of that would be cool to put into SE4.

Basically the premise is that there is "Quantum Weather", and if your planet happens to pass through the equivalent of a cold front, the physics in local space changes such that technology dosen't work (at all, or as well, depending on how cold)
Similarily, magic was also affected.

So in the story, Earth was inside a strong magic/low tech area until a few thousand years ago, then passed through into a no-magic, medium-low tech, where we find ourselves today.

To convert this to SE4, we'd have to have the physics work the same throughout the SE4 playing field, and changes would occur to the whole area simultaneously.
But, we could have a game where the properties of every object change weekly.
Those players with Fate shrines, Events predictors, or a new normal tech facility (longrange quantum state detector/ weather forecast center) would have some advance notice of what the next week's physics will be like.

Between weeks, some of the possible changes would be:
- Strength of materials: (hitpoints and energy weapons weakened, maintenance costs rise)
- Energy Field Diffusion rate (speed of light?): Shields become weaker, supply usage of all things rises, energy weapons lose power at range.
- Vaccuum friction: Supply usage of engines rises, Engines per move rises.
- Maximum useful tech: The highest tech weapons become useless more often than the low tech ones. You may be reduced to using only DUC's or ramming with ion engines if it gets really bad.
- Maximum useful "magic": same as above, applies mainly to psychic, temporal, religious techs.

There could be some neat situations, where you attack at just the right moment, when your enemy's WMGs and shields stop working, and you take 'em down with DUC frigates. Or the opposite way, you build some big ships that don't work, but then once the tech barometer rises again, you catch your enemy using only weak low-tech stuff.
In both cases, you've gotta hope that the enemy dosen't strike while your main forces are useless.

It would certainly break up stalemates, and provide for some creative strategies and tactics.
Whoever can adapt to the next major change in physics will have a definite advantage.


Suggestions & Comments?

[Phoenix-D]

Interesting, but I can't see how you'd impliment it..

Phoenix-D

[bearclaw]

Sounds good, but how would you implement something like this? I've always thought that the physics tech should be much larger. like 12+ levels. What we get now at 1st and 2nd should be more like 3rd and 5th. That way, physics would become more important, as it should. A lot of higher levels of tech would then require it.

As an example, lv 10 propulsion and lv 5 physics would be needed for WMG. That way, someone could have quantum engines but not have WMG. lv 3 for Rippers, lv 4 for Incinerators, etc.

Nick (bearclaw)

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"You don't know the Power of the Dark Side. I must obey my Master"

[Mark Walton]

Implementation;

would the game work correctly if you swapped out all the components files but kept the items in the same order?
I think it would... the game records that a ship has 3 of component type 123, then when it needs to it goes into the component file and looks at entry 123 to see what it does. Am I correct?

I think it might. Then you can set up an out-of-game file manager to randomly copy a new file, or portion of a file, over it.

Think; set up a couple of "dummy fields" in a Fate shrine. Allow this program to overwrite the "Ability x Descr" in the current data file with "Omens indicate a shift in material properties some time within the next 3 cycles".
Players could consult their shrines to get a prediction.

To summarize:

Have a seperate components.txt, facilities.txt and maybe others...
Have copies of the files, with altered stats for each item, but all items kept in the same order. Copies for Low-Materials, High-Magic, etc...
Write a program to randomly determine future changes.
Get this program to write over descriptive text for various facilities and components as forewarning.
When the change occours, between turns, the program over-writes the data files with data from the various copies.

In special particular, the Events file could be changed. Beware multi-turn events though...

I think this would only work in a pbm game, ie the game has to be shut down between turns for it to work (the game reads data files on load, not on the fly, I think... even if not theres a lot that could go wrong)

I was thinking about magic as part of my modding, a while back, and decided that various Spells would best be represented by Intel Operations. Others by technology, which is one reason why I wanted to have one-shot components (but this does not seem to be possible)

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I think I described that badly.

What I meant is this :

Have, for example, a components.txt file.

Copy it as HighMagicComponents.txt

In this file, alter the properties of any components as required... but do not add or subtract any items, nor change their positions within the file, or component sizes.

When the time comes to swtich to High Magic , the program (custom written) will copy HighMagicComponents.txt to Components.txt
Now, when the next turn is played, all the properties of items will change too.

You would also have components.txt files for the other various "states". These would be copied over as described at the appropriate time.

Not just components of course; almost any data file could be affected.


The point about the Fate Shrines (or whatever facilities/components are used) is that players can be given advance warning, by adding a do-nothing ability to those items, and changing the textual description of that ability.


[This message has been edited by Mark Walton (edited 22 November 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

We must be entering a high-magic zone, cause you've just described exactly how I was thinking of implementing it.
If the PBW people were not too put off about it, I would have them change the data files every sunday or monday.
I was thinking of manually generating the altered files, so it would be easier to make pattern changes like I mentioned below.

I was not really concerned about implementation, more playability. How would you feel about having your WMG dreadnaughts suddenly become impotent, and never being at the peak of technology.
It would be like the price is right: the highest tech without going over is the winner and you can only guess at what the right tech level is going to be next week.

[Mark Walton]

Hey that wasn't magic, it was my Neural Modding Net.

Thinking about it, I would probably find the game frustrating at first. In fact I might just decide to stick to low-tech weapons, and wait.

But, I feel that there's too much of a random element. The game will be won or lost on who guesses best... although there may be strategies which can be employed, will players get over that initial hurdle and play a 2nd / 3rd game to find out?

[Deathstalker]

This stuff sounds fun but would it work with the new 'anti-cheat' stuff added in the latest patch? The files in the Data folder must match with the files in the Data folder when the game was created by the host. This is to prevent 'modding' mid-game. Found this out in my latest PBW game when people tried to play without the new CompEnhancement.txt file I supplied.

[Phoenix-D]

"The files in the Data folder must match with the files in the Data folder when the game was created by the host."

Not needed IMO..only the host could pull this cheat, it would effect EVERYONE, not just the host, and changing it slammed the door shut to a number of interesting mod and scenerios..

Phoenix-D

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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This stuff sounds fun but would it work with the new 'anti-cheat' stuff added in the latest patch?

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When the PBW host updates to the next week's data files, everybody would have to download them before they take their next turn.

You've all see that it is perfectly OK for the PBW guys to upgrade the game between mod Versions, as long as everybody is on the same page, it works.

quote:

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But, I feel that there's too much of a random element. The game will be won or lost on who guesses best... although there may be strategies which can be employed, will players get over that initial hurdle and play a 2nd / 3rd game to find out?

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For the most part, it would be gradual, continuous changes. Plus, there will be a normal-tech weather forecast facility. Everybody can see what's coming in the near future once they've got the technology to do so (you wouldn't even have to actually build the facility, just look at it's stats)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 November 2001).]

[Quikngruvn]

I think this is a great idea! I think a big part of the strategy would be to determine how much of your fleet to go high-tech (which may work only occasionally) and how much for low-tech (which should work most of the time)....

Question, though: would there a circumstance arising where techs would become completely unavailable moving from a high-tech to a low-tech zone? I'm thinking specifically of ship construction, like if up to Battlecruisers are available, and I research and build Battelcruisers, and then suddenly only Destroyers are available, then what happens to my ships? Or is this a scenario that just wouldn't come up?

Quikngruvn