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Old November 22nd, 2002, 09:40 PM
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Default Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Well, as I've been babbling about on #se4 (and here, to a lesser extent), I've got a new mod in the works -- "Exodus". Feedbacka nd outside ideas are always a good idea, so I figured I'd let folks know what's what, so far.

The main intent of Exodus is to increase the interdependencies of the tech tree, and the resulting components. A given vehicle or unit size, or a component, or a facility, will be achieved through researching multiple technology fields, rather than the stock SE4 mdoel, where you research X field for X components, Y field for Y components, and so on.

For example; whatever youbuild, it will likely require some level or other of Construction technology, combined with various other fields.

Ship hulls will be based on both construction, and, various theoretical fields (Small Hulls, Medium, Hulls, and so on). Fighter sizes will be based on combining Construction with levels of Fighter technology.

However, few fields will fail to give some benefit directly. Construction alone, will govern how good your Spaceyard facilities are (every odd-numbered level of Construction, from 1 to 9, gives an increasingly better Spaceyard facility, and similar components). Fighter technology alone, will give you actual Fighter Bays (so it is possible, with high Fighter technology and lower Construction, to have great Fighter Bay components, but still be using smaller fighters).

Another aim of Exodus is to change the way Racial Technologies work. In stock SE4, an Organic Manipulation race is really no different form a Temporal Technology race, aside form each having a few special toys the other lacks. Exodus sidesteps this (mostly); there are three "paradigm" types:

Standard Technology is similar to stock SE4 in look, feel, and methodology. We, in real life, would be a Standard Technology race. The economy of a Standard race is focussed, as in stock SE4, on mineral resources.

Organic Manipulation uses organic "biomachinery" for EVERYthing. Every tool, building, and so on, is alive. The economy of an Organic race is focussed onorganic resources.

Crystallurgy uses crystalline energy-interactions; units, tools, buildings -- all are large crystals, whose internal structures channel energy flows which produce the desired results. Due to the high energy requirements of crystallurgic structures, radioactives form the main focus of Crystalline races' economies.

These paradigma don't really add anything special in the form of extra components. Rather, the technology tree will be generally identical for all three paradigma. What will change is, what precisely you get at each technology level, and what precisely a given component will do. Oh, and what various facilities, components, and so on will COST.

For example, all armor components the Organic Manipulation race gets, will have the OA regeneration ability. They will also cost mostly organics resources. On the other hand, all armors the Crystalline race gets, will have the Crystalline Armor ability ... and will tend to cost more radioactives than anythign else.

Some components, and even tech fields, may be available only to one or another paradigm -- this will largely be the case in terms of available weaponry. For example, Organic races will have "melee" type wepaons -- range 1 direct-fire weapons, of relatively-high damage potential. Imagie the look on a Phong captain's face when an Organic-paradigm ship drives up to his cruiser ... and starts EATING it.

However, there are still "get soemthing extra" traits that use the Racial Technology mechanic. However, these tend to be thigns that don't really change the basic premise of how a race's tools work ... rather, they represent some special knack that race has over other, similar races.

An example is the Megascalar Engineers trait. Races with this trait will have bigger ships and bases, higher-capacity (but grossly expensive) spaceyard facilities and components, and an enhanced set of stellar construction options. The concept here is, not "buld it this way" ... but instead, "build it BIGGER".

Another example would be the Religious trait -- which, by the way, will be split up into differently-themed traits. Being especially religious doesn't change how you would build, say, a car. It might change what youwulod name it, and how you would -decorate- it ... but the basic engineering behind the engine, steering, and so on, wouldn't really change.

Speaking of religious races, Exodus will (s mentioend above) be splitting the trait up -- currently, into about five different traits:

Religious (War) will focus on benefits gained in combat - on the ground and in space. The talisman (heavly modified) will go here; the benefits of the old War and Death shrines will fall under this heading. All will enhance population happiness, and each will have some general benefits specific to itself:

Religious (Life) is concerned with fertility, healing, and so on. Plague prevention, population growth, and improved climates will be the sorts of benefits this gives.

Religious (Wisdom) will benefit research, and perhaps (offensive) intelligence activities; happiness improvement will be slightly enhanced. This "flavor" focusses on knowledge, gained by ... ANY means.

Religious (Fate) will be concerned with predicting the future; (defensive) intelligence activities will be enhanced, and events probabilities will benefit as well (a Lucky and Religious(Fate) race should expect lots of happy circumstances ...!).

Religious (Industry) is centered around hard work; resource production, planet value%'s, and if possible planetary spaceyard construction rates will be improved.

Of course, the idea of "Crossover components" will be included whenever and wherever possible; ditto for facilities, units, and so on. In fact, nearly EVERYthing will be a crossover in one sense or another (an Organic Megascalar ship will be different from a Standard Megascalar ship, for example).

Let's see, what next. Ah yes, mQNP -- Exodus will use the mQNP model. This means bigger ships will inherently use more space to move a given speed ... but willhave more space left AFTER engines, as the space needed will be a percentage. mQNP has been discussed elswhere in the forum, so I won't go into it at length (again) just now.

Also, propulsion will no longer be quite so linear. Here is a sample of the Propulsion tree (some, like Fyron, have seen this before -- too many times, perhaps. ) ...

code:
Ion Propulsion    
|
--Improved Ion Engines 1-2-3-4
|
|---------------------------
|
|
---Plasma Propulsion
|
--Improved PlasmaEngines 1-2-3-4
|
|------------------------------------
|
|
---Gravitic Propulsion

Ion Propulsion gives you theIon I engine; Improved Ion Engines 1 gives Ion II engines, and so on. Costs decrease with roman numeral, both in terms of fuel used, and cost-to-build.

What the above means is, essentially -- when youhave the ____ III engine of your current level, you gain the option to pursue a theoretical field that will give you a new, improved engine. however, the new engine will be MUCH more costly than your current Type III's, so you mgiht want to stick with improving what you have, instead.

Anyway, here's the current to-do list. Suggestions, ideas, feedback,a dn such are not only welcome -- they're what I'm looking for. Right now, not in terms of actual components though .. I've done diddly in terms of actually writing out entire datafiles; things are still in the note-taking stage. I'm also more than happy to answer questions about specific areas or issues, ofc.

Lastly -- I'd like to hear from artists looking to find a home for SE4 facility and component artwork. There's simply not enough crystalline- and organic-look component or facility images out there, even in the ImageMod packs ...

TO DO LIST, Exodus v0.0.1
+++Propulsion and Movement+++
X- mQNP engine mounts and engine size
X- choose hull sizes
-- add combat thrusters
-- add small combat movement for Bases - "Psoitional Stabilisers" ?

+++New Mechanics+++
X- Interdependencies in Tech Tree
X- New cloaking mechanic
X- Mine detection and cloaking
X- Unit launch and recovery rates
-- Enhanced and extended Vehicle Control options
X- Adjusted Resource production / Construction rates
X- Legacy-class facilities for HWs at game start (thanks, SJ!)
X- Adjust %-bonus facilities

+++Tech Tree+++
X- Colonisation
X- Propulsion
X- Ship/base/unit hulls
X- Terraforming
X- Armor
X- Shields
X- Resource Production
X- Spaceyards

+++Weaponry: Standard paradigm+++
X- Basic 'theme'; "jack-of-all-trades, master of none"
-- Weapons list

+++Weaponry: Organic paradigm+++
X- Basic 'theme'; projectile-weapons focussed
-- Weapons list
-- "Melee" class weapons (VERY short range, VERY high damage)

+++Weaponry: Crystallurgy paradigm+++
X- Basic 'theme'; beam-weapons focussed
-- Weapons list

+++Racial Traits: Paradigma+++
X- Standard
X- Organic Manipulation
X- Crystallurgy

+++Racial Traits: Secondary Tech+++
X- Psychic
X- Propulsion Experts
X- Megascalar Engineers
X- Microscalar Engineers
X- Advanced Missiles
X- Advanced Carriers
-- Advanced Remote Mining
X- Pirate Race
X- Adaptive Biochemistry
X- Religious (War)
X- Religious (Life)
X- Religious (Wisdom)
X- Religious (Fate)
X- Religious (Industry)

+++Racial Traits: Special+++
X- Emotionless (retained)
X- Small Race (was: Advanced Storage Techniques)
X- Large Race (opposite of Small Race)
X- Lucky (retained)
X- Charmed (1/4 chance of bad events)
X- Jinxed (2x chance of bad events)
X- Cursed (4x chance of bad events)
X- Mechanoid (retained)
X- Ancient Race (retained)
X- Frugal (was Advanced Power Conservation)
X- Natural Merchants (retained)

+++Miscellaneous+++
-- Huge numbers of mounts for various components and weapons
-- CROSSOVER components for various combinations of Paradigm-and-Secondary, secondary-and-secondary, and so on.
-- Add No-AI files

+++Actual files+++
-- CompEnhancement.txt
-- Components.txt
-- Cultures.txt
-- Events.txt
-- Facility.txt
-- IntelProjects.txt
-- PlanetSize.txt
-- RacialTraits.txt
-- Settings.txt
-- TechArea.txt
-- VehicleSize.txt

+++CLEANUP+++
-- Proofread all files for typographical an spelling errors
-- Write initial Documentation
-- Playtest
-- Playtest some more
-- Playtest AGAIN (heh)
-- Write release-Version Documentation
-- Proofread Documentation

[ November 22, 2002, 19:42: Message edited by: Pax ]
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  #2  
Old November 22nd, 2002, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Whoa, great ideas - some of the racial traits stuff reminds me of Stars! with its highly specialized races - I'd love to see this mod in action!
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Old November 22nd, 2002, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Yes very nice. Well thought out. Hope you are able to pull it off.

Why the name? Exodus? Just curious.

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Old November 22nd, 2002, 11:24 PM

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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Good ideas..

"Let's see, what next. Ah yes, mQNP -- Exodus will use the mQNP model. This means bigger ships will inherently use more space to move a given speed ... but willhave more space left AFTER engines, as the space needed will be a percentage. mQNP has been discussed elswhere in the forum, so I won't go into it at length (again) just now"

Suggestion: is it possible to do *both*? Simulating one engine type being a big, single engine in the back, as opposed to another type with lots of itty bitty engines. Probably not, but it might be worth a shot..

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Old November 22nd, 2002, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Whoa, great ideas - some of the racial traits stuff reminds me of Stars! with its highly specialized races - I'd love to see this mod in action!
Thanks. The funny thing is, Stars! is hte email 4X game I'd been playing for several years, before getting into SE4. So I suppose similarities might be inevitable.

But even in Stars!, most of the PRT's (Primary Racial Traits) and LRT's (Lesser Racial Traits) only give you extras, rather than completely altering what you have from turn one.

Quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Yes very nice. Well thought out. Hope you are able to pull it off.
So do I!!

Quote:
Why the name? Exodus? Just curious.

Geoschmo
Well, originally I'd intended to name it "Phoenix" -- sort of a 'rebirth' concept, since obviously the mod is pretty much a ground-up reworking of the game. But, well ... then folks might've thought Pheonix-D wrote it, and that could prove confusing, so ... I randomly picked a word that "sounded cool" and wasn't, AFAIK, in use as a name hereabouts.

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Good ideas..

Suggestion: is it possible to do *both*? Simulating one engine type being a big, single engine in the back, as opposed to another type with lots of itty bitty engines. Probably not, but it might be worth a shot..

Phoenix-D
Well, that'd really only be a visual difference, really. Wether a given "single engien component" is one huge engine pod, or, fifty small nacelles, is really only a conceptual/visual issue. It's the same mass for the same thrust, and the way SE4's repair systemworks, it'd be a disadvantage to use the distributed, multiple-nacelle approach in terms of actual, multiple components (since repair is per-component, not per-kT).

Also that would somewhat defeat the purpose of mQNP ... which is to produce QNP-like movement, with -- especially for the biggest ships -- far fewer mouse clicks. Gone will be the days of putting fourty engines on a ship, just to eke out a speed of one.

[ November 22, 2002, 21:45: Message edited by: Pax ]
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Old November 23rd, 2002, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

I like a lot of the concepts for the mod - but I dislike the number of "religious" traits. Can a species not be religious and still be war mongers?
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Old November 23rd, 2002, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Quote:"+++Miscellaneous+++
-- Huge numbers of mounts for various components and weapons"



Your quite welcome to add/use/mis-use any combination of mounts from my Mount Mod. (As well as my other mod, the 'D-Mod', the best thing IMO from it was the specialized ship classes, the 'Fast destroyer', 'Scout Ship' etc and the 'Mercinary Tech', quite fond of that).

Sounds like it will be a quite impressive mod. Quite looking forward too it.
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Old November 23rd, 2002, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I like a lot of the concepts for the mod - but I dislike the number of "religious" traits. Can a species not be religious and still be war mongers?
Well, of course.

Warmonger is a strategy,a chosen course of action.

However, a warmonger race which is also comprised of bloodthirsty religious ZEALOTS ... has a few advantages over the garden-variety warmonger.

Essentially, the Religious (war) trait means a race has an active religion centered around combat, warfare, and deities dedicated to the same. Take the combat benefits of the stock-SE4 Religious racial technology ... all the benefits that applied directly to combat will be here. It'll cost slightly less in Exodus than in stock SE4, because it won't get the full range of benefits stock Religious races get.

But it will have the equivalent of a War and/or Death shrine, and the talisman, and probably a few other benefits (religious-modified armor is an option, perhaps).

I split them because -- for ME -- I would nearly take Religious for the Nature shrine alone. In Exodus, I need only take Religious (Life) to gain that benefit. Why pay for religious components and facilities I won't use?

And folks would always be free to take ALL the religious traits if they want; there'll be multi-Religious crossovers, and possibly a few toys that only those with ALL the Religious traits will get.
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Old November 23rd, 2002, 02:28 AM

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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

"It's the same mass for the same thrust, and the way SE4's repair systemworks, it'd be a disadvantage to use the distributed, multiple-nacelle approach in terms of actual, multiple components (since repair is per-component, not per-kT)."

The only difference- besides repair and number of mouse clicks- is damage. The little engines will loose bits more quickly, but obviously less of a drop than loosing one huge engine. Should be interesting seeing how you handle engine-killers regardless.

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Old November 23rd, 2002, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Exodus mod -- suggestions welcome

Very Nice
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