OT: Help buying a new computer

[Renegade 13]

This fall I'm heading off to university, and will need a new computer. Since I'm not sure what the best buys are right now, I figured I'd ask around here to see what you guys think is the best buy for my money.

My budget is about $1000 US, though that is a little flexible. That budget must also include the monitor!!! The computer will be used for schoolwork, internet use, and playing some fairly graphics-intensive games.

Below I will list everything that I can think of that I need help with, along with a list of questions. If you can help me with a few of these or even just one, I would be extremely grateful. I'm not computer illiterate, but please assume I am for the purposes of this conversation, since I probably have way less knowledge than most of you do

Processor: ??????
Motherboard: ?????
Memory: I was thinking about 1 GB RAM or so, if that's financially possible. I'm not sure what is the best though.
Graphics Card: For this I have no idea, any suggestions very welcome.
OS: WinXP Home. Unless you want to try to convince me otherwise.
Drives: CD-RW, probably a DVD drive too, plus a 3.5" floppy.
Hard drive: Nothing fancy, probably somewhere around a 60-80 GB hard drive would do. Not sure what the best is though.
Case: ??? Only need to worry about that if I'm building it myself, right?
Power supply: ???? No clue.
Monitor: Whatever fits my budget

Now I'm sure the list above is not comprehensive, and if I've missed anything, please be sure to point it out. Like I said, I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to computers. Now for some specific questions...

1. For the Processor, should I go with Intel or AMD?? What are the pro's and con's of both?
2. Memory; I know there's different types of RAM, I'm just not sure what is considered the best. For example, SDRAM, DDR SDRAM, etc ad nauseum.
3. Is 1 GB of RAM going overboard for the types of applications I want to run on it?
4. Graphics card, what brand is the "best" in your opinion. Should I go with a 128MB card or spend a lot more money for a 256 card?
5. Optical drives; is a DVD drive necessary, or just something good to have. Same question applies to a DVD burner.


There will likely be more questions than those above after you guys answer a few of my initial questions. I hope they all make sense, though I'm betting some of them don't since as I said before, I'm not an expert!

Oh and in case you're wondering, I'm not sure whether I want to buy a pre-assembled computer, or build it myself. I'm going to be starting another thread on that though, so...if you want to answer in it too, that'd be great!

Thank you guys so much for the help I know you will provide

[Wolfman77]

well I can offer my opinion on a few of your ?'s, but others may know more.

512k memory should be a MINIMUM, 1 gig is not overboard.

I'm not sure about the graphics card but I would recomend avoiding integrated mother boards, as you can't upgrade them, and may not even have an agp slot,

DVD may be a good idea but unless you plan on saving several GB of data I couldn't see a need for DVD-R. Maybe If you have a digital camcorder and want to do video editing or something along those lines. You can put 650MB on a CD-R and they are cheap.

I'v heard AMD heats up easier than Intel, but if you keep them ventalated good you shouldn't have a problem. still you may want someone who has more experience with them, as I haven't had an AMD yet. I would suggest though wichever one you go with, that you get the high quality chip. Pentium for Intel not the Celeron, can't remember AMD's at the moment. The way I understand it (anyone can confirm this, or correct me if I'm wrong) is they are made the same and if they don't qualify as a Pentium they get the celeron name. which to me sounds like just a lower quality chip.

Thats my 2 cents, anyway.

[Iron Giant]

www.slickdeals.net

I just bought a Compaq
AMD 64 bit 3200+
512mb ram
60Gig hard disk
on board video and nic
XP home
modem

For $550 including shipping with a $300 rebate = $250.00 shipped. Slick deals shows you when these deals come up, usually a few times a month.

No monitor, but I already had one. You can get a nice conventional 19" for short money.

I had an AGP 4200Ti video card in another PC which I put in this one so it will run any modern game. That video card is very nice for games and can be had for around $70 with shipping at www.pricewatch.com.

I love AMD chips, never had a problem with them and I've owned around 10 of them. I always use a good heatsink and a secondary fan in the case.

XP home is just fine for my home PC.

[Fyron]

Wolfman77 said:
I'm not sure about the graphics card but I would recomend avoiding integrated mother boards, as you can't upgrade them, and may not even have an agp slot,

Nearly all motherboards come with integrated video, sound and ethernet controller these days, and are designed to automatically disable them if you install an appropriate card into the AGP slot or a PCI slot. Decent boards do not lose PCI/AGP slots over it. Sticking with integrated video is definitely a bad idea, especially once SEV comes out.

Wolfman77 said:
DVD may be a good idea but unless you plan on saving several GB of data I couldn't see a need for DVD-R. Maybe If you have a digital camcorder and want to do video editing or something along those lines. You can put 650MB on a CD-R and they are cheap.

You can definitely find a decently priced DVD-R drive these days, so long as you do not care about the most recent burning speed technologies. DVD-R drives will almost universally also burn CD-Rs, so you can use those 700MB CD-Rs (and the old 650s) as well.

[Alneyan]

No problem with the lower-end chips from AMD here (K6, Duron and now a low Athlon), and I cannot say I had any trouble with heating either: all three withstood an average summer here with no trouble at all (temperatures going up to 35 C in the room containing the computer), despite having only average fans. Then again, I never used the biggest CPUs, and those probably heat up more... but British Columbia should have cooler summers than France.

[Timstone]

Oh dear, now you've asked a very stupid question. Now, you've done it.

Practically everyone has something to say about this subject. Beware of the minefield you've stepped in.
There will be as many advises as there are posters.

Of course I don't mean anything bad with this post.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Go the easy way. Find a friendly and honest shop tech. One who doesn't charge you if they didn't actually have to do any work on it.

Then, buy what he recommends.

2.0GHz AMD, almost never crashes.

[Will]

Your biggest restriction would be the $1000 including monitor, but I managed to do the same for a bit more ($1300) two years ago (which included flat-panel monitor and 5.1 surround), so I can offer some tips.

If you build it yourself, you can usually get a level up in performance for the same cost as a pre-built, but look at places like the slickdeals site that was linked for pre-built computers with rebates. You could pay something like $1250 and get $250 back in a few months, and get a computer that would have otherwise cost more to build on your own, since the manufacturers generally get discounts on hardware for buying lots of the same components in bulk, so the savings get (partially) passed on. But, what it basically comes down to is flexibility and reliability. Pre-builts have limited flexibility, but are generally more reliable because all the components are guaranteed to work together flawlessly. Building your own gives you ultimate flexibility, but you can run into problems with parts working (e.g. some CPUs or memory will pass factory tests but fail when put into an actual computer).

Now, for specifics on building your own:
CPU, it's sort of a tossup. AMD offers slightly better performance/dollar, but IMO nothing can quite beat an Intel chip on an Intel board at the moment. If you want to invest in a 64-bit processor, definitely go with AMD. Intel is lagging behind severely in that department. But there aren't many applications out now that will make use of the 64-bit capability (and I believe the version of Windows that supports it is still beta?), but it's sort of "the next thing". I'll leave the pros/cons of 64 bit to the people that actually have those processors.

Memory, like was already said, 512 is a minimum now (especially for Windows). Mine has 1GB, which I'll be upgrading soon to either 2 or 3. I would say it's worth the cost for what you're doing because you WILL be multitasking. I'm not saying this from a computer-knowledge standpoint, I'm saying it from a university student standpoint. Plus, if you're going to be gaming on it, 1GB would probably be the absolute minimum. Besides, you can get that much for under $100 now anyway.

Motherboard, depends on your processor. If you're getting Intel, definitely go with an Intel board. Otherwise, look for the amount and type of memory supported, PCI slots (does it support newer PCI-express?), the AGP slot (video card might need 8x, etc.), any on-board stuff you may want to use (I would only use sound and NIC). Also, you'll want probably four USB ports. If Firewire is included too, that's just gravy.

Graphics Card, I am a convert to nVidia. I've just had far too many problems with ATI drivers being utter crap. And I would say don't bother with the 256MB cards, most of that extra memory doesn't even end up being used. I believe the top-of-the-line right now is the 6800, but I would just check out the prices and get a mid-range one (probably around 6200 by now). It should last for a few years and be at least tolerable for the newest resource-hog game.

OS. Before you do anything, check with your school. When I first started school, Win2kPro was offered for FREE to students. You just had to know where to find it I can now get WinXPPro for free, as well. I would also recommend you get the ISO for a Linux LiveCD (Knoppix, Ubuntu, Kubuntu) to at least try it out. Linux is free, has geek cred, and you can guarantee that most people won't want to mess with your computer because it "looks weird". Only downside is most games are Windows.

Drives. Go with a DVD-R (or DVD+R, whatever). They're cheap now, they can burn CDs as well. Might want to possibly get a cheap CD reader as well, since burners tend to have a lower MTBF (mean time before failure... basically how many hours on average it's gonna work before blowing up). Since I've bought the DVD burner, I've gone through about 50 DVDs, most handed out to other people. YMMV, but it's still a very good thing to have.

Hard Drives, look around a bit. Most of the 60-80GB models are priced at a bit over 1$US per GB, but the bigger 160-200GB drives can be had for around 0.50$US/GB. Big things here are interface (don't want to get slower ATA100 when you can have faster ATA133), rotation speed (7200 rpm better than 5400 rpm... 10k rpm is usually SCSI only, and very expensive). Also look for MTBF if it's listed. Bigger numbers here = more reliable.

Case/Power supply: DO NOT GO CHEAP ON THIS. It will fail on you. And, because of Murphy's Law, it will be at the exact moment when it will do the most damage for you. I know people who went all-out, spent $2000 on their system, and got a crappy $20 case/PSU combo. One of my friends got a cheap case that didn't even have the panel to hold the systemboard aligned correctly, so it just hung by two screws. I even knew a guy that tried to build his own case from scrap metal. Spend some time and find a good quality case that allows for ventilation, easy access, and solid construction. You might also want to invest a little in a battery backup. I got one rated for 425W for about 4 minutes, which is enough to check email one more time, save everything, twiddle thumbs for 40 seconds, and shut down with no problem.

Monitor: while it's good to get whatever fits within budget, do not underestimate the value of desk real-estate in college. Right now I have the flap extender thing up on my desk, and my dresser up next to it for more space, and there still isn't enough for me. And I have a flat panel. I guess it sort of depends on your vigelence with organization skills.

And some stuff you're missing:
Input devices (keyboard, mouse): You'll want these. Cheap route is beige clunker keyboard and ball mouse. I got a wireless keyboard and USB optical mouse. Just depends on what you'll be doing.

Speakers. If you're gonna be gaming, it's blasphemy to do it with no sound. Plus you'll probably be doing stuff like music and watching videos/movies. I got an Altec Lansing 5.1 for $100, and the card to support it for another $40. You can get a decent 2.1 computer speaker set that will work with onboard sound for fairly cheap.

Printer. You will have papers. Your professors probably will expect hard copies. It's inconvenient, but it's a fact of life. Check if any of the provided labs provide printing services first, but a cheap inkjet is always a nice thing to have.

And, one more thing: try looking into Apple. I recently got a PowerBook, and have been doing a lot of work with it. I am now addicted to XCode, and catch myself using Expose shortcuts on my PC. The mini and ibook have been upgraded, with the mini being $499 sans monitor, and the iBook being $999. Worth looking into.

[parabolize]

Here is the box I'm building for my mom. Its got a crapy video card but she doesn't need a good one. If your doing heavy gaming you want something like a GF 6600GT ~$160.

512-B-SF ATX Mid Tower $55
Microstar (MSI) K8T Neo2-F ATX Motherboard $97.5
AMD Athlon64 3200+ $190
DVD-RW $44
Hitatchi 80GB Hard Drive $56.74
2 512MB DDR400 DIMM $93.56
Chaintech Nvidia GForce FX5200 free (I got a spare)
OS Ubuntu 5.04 (She is even knows her way around.
She already has a monitor, sound system, keyboard and mouse.

$536.8

[Renegade 13]

Thanks so much everyone, especially Will. That was exactly the sort of advice I was looking for.

Ok, a question here: With regards to the power supply, what wattage is good? I see power supplies anywhere from 350W to 450W.

Oh yeah, I've decided to take the plunge and build my own. I'm fairly mechanically inclined, so it shouldn't be too bad...