Diplomatic proposal...what to answer ?

Viking · #1 February 1st, 2001, 07:35 PM

Hi all!
I have just encountered two species. First they proposed at trade all�ance but now several turns later both proposing a trade & research alliance. My spies have given me information about their current research achievements..and they haven't come as far as my own empire.

So my question is..what to answer ? I think i say NO...really. But what will the result ? war perhaps?

Im new at this game...and these are the first encounters for me. They are Cue Cappa and Toltayan.

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"what horror, what horror............"

rdouglass · #2 February 1st, 2001, 07:45 PM

For me, I always play "bloodthirsy" race so any treaties lower my population happines. However, if your race is peaceful and you accept the treaties, your happiness will go up. If your neutral ANYTHING will lower their happines (Sidenote: IMO Neutral is a harder setting due to this fact) whether it be treaties, wars, or what have you. Personally, I never accept treaties unless I have no other choice (READ getting my butt kicked).

OTOH, you can trade for technologies and stuff without having any treaties. I have done that in the past IE. trade Rock tech for Gas tech, etc.

Commander G · #3 February 1st, 2001, 07:48 PM

Besides the diplomatic mood of the other races being affected, consider the happiness effect on your own race. If your race is Neutral or Bloodthirsty, upgrading the treaty will cost you additional happiness points. If you are Peaceful, it will help you rather than hurt you.

Q · #4 February 1st, 2001, 07:48 PM

The trade and research treaty does not give you specific technology from your partners, but research points. So even if they are far behind you in technology you might get a profit.
To refuse the treaty will certainly increase their anger (as does your espionnage by the way), so be careful, you might very well end up in war with both of them.
Good luck.

raynor · #5 February 1st, 2001, 07:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Viking:
Hi all!
I have just encountered two species. First they proposed at trade all�ance but now several turns later both proposing a trade & research alliance. My spies have given me information about their current research achievements..and they haven't come as far as my own empire.

So my question is..what to answer ? I think i say NO...really. But what will the result ? war perhaps?

If you click on the '?' icon, it has an option to bring up the HTML manual. The manual has some pretty useful information on treaties.

With a trade alliance, you get a resource bonus equivalent to 1% of the other empire's resource production. This number can climb as high as 20% at the rate of 1% per turn. A research alliance means that you also get a similar percentage of their research production. I generally say 'yes' to requests like this because it keeps them happy. The next level treaty is Military Alliance. This lets them resupply at your resupply depots. I like to avoid these because I don't want them putting down colonies in the middle of my empire. The Last treaty is Partnership. At this level, both empires trade star charts and enemy ship/unit designs. I think you also get a percentage of their intel production at Partnership.

Viking · #6 February 1st, 2001, 08:14 PM

I see, thats interesting. But.....do i have to share my tech with these species ? I'm kinda greedy and doesn't want to share anything with anybody =) So thats probably why i say no.... I have been thinking...if they get angry, let them get angry...them fools doesn't have Cruisers and Shields III and other valuable tools of destruction LIKE I DO..

Baron Munchausen · #7 February 1st, 2001, 08:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Viking:
I see, thats interesting. But.....do i have to share my tech with these species? I'm kinda greedy and doesn't want to share anything with anybody =) So thats probably why i say no.... I have been thinking...if they get angry, let them get angry...them fools doesn't have Cruisers and Shields III and other valuable tools of destruction LIKE I DO..

It depends on what sort of game you like to play. If you want to slug it out with everyone, all the time, then by allmeans refuse the treaties and start bLasting any colonies you come across. You'll have a war soon enough. But sometimes it might take a little finesse to win the game. Hopefully, as the AI continues to improve it will take finesse more and more frequently.

So you MIGHT want to accept a treaty with one or the other to keep them happy while you deal with the non-ally. When you've won your first war you can start probing your "ally's" defenses.

Admittedly, you will be giving them more research points than they give you, but if you are already well ahead this will not let them catch up. The maximum benefit from a treaty is only 20 percent of your total. Finally, if you don't want to accept any higher level treaties you don't have to use the REFUSE option on the diplomacy menu. You can just pass over the treaty offers in silence and not have nearly as bad a reaction from the AI.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 01 February 2001).]

Taqwus · #8 February 1st, 2001, 08:37 PM

and don't forget that early wars can be rather expensive in the long run, since some of the maintenance required for a fleet capable of a decent offensive could have been spent expanding via more colonies. start fighting too early and you might get bogged down in a war while somebody on the other side of the quadrant's still building up. it may be more in your interest to get those two busy fighting each other. the communications mimic intel op is the most direct way to do this, but i suspect you can achieve the same result by doing things like trading for ships in their space, and then giving/trading ships to the other party so that they have ships / colonies in each other's space, which may perhaps cause mutual anger.

Also, if you're running short of a resource type but rich in another, you may be able to make some useful trades in that way... especially for minerals, which are disproportionately valuable (almost everything takes minerals to build, and some things take *only* minerals to build).

Trade with them (some tech trades are safe if they're not in a position to exploit them well... for instance, if you research shield-piercing weapons, offering them low levels of shielding is an option. If you use many fighters for defense, which can't be hit by missiles, you might want to trade missile tech. And so forth, as long as you have the patience (the AI doesn't seem to like tech trades that much -- often rejecting even pretty good offers without a counter-offer).

There are numerous ways to temporize while you expand, and encouraging them towards pointless squabbles with each other, and tossing the occasional trinket in their direction.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

raynor · #9 February 1st, 2001, 08:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Viking:
I see, thats interesting. But.....do i have to share my tech with these species ? I'm kinda greedy and doesn't want to share anything with anybody =) So thats probably why i say no.... I have been thinking...if they get angry, let them get angry...them fools doesn't have Cruisers and Shields III and other valuable tools of destruction LIKE I DO..

No.

The research treaty doesn't mean that you trade tech levels. It just means that if your colonies produce 50,000 research points per turn that the empires with a research treaty will get 1%, 2% up to 20% of your research points. BTW, these points aren't lost to you. It's just that the other empire gets the benefit of them as well.

IMHO, if you are playing a reasonably good gam, even with 20% of your total, even the #2 empire behind you is still going to be *WAY* behind you in research. As Baron Munchausen said, best to strive for peace with all your neighbors even if it means you give them a small research boost.

Sorry for not making it more clear that you don't have to give other empires tech levels as part of the research treaty.

raynor · #10 February 1st, 2001, 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Taqwus:
but i suspect you can achieve the same result by doing things like trading for ships in their space, and then giving/trading ships to the other party so that they have ships / colonies in each other's space, which may perhaps cause mutual anger.

Dude! You are *EVIL*.

This is one tactic I never thought of trying. But it is pure genius!

(The rest of your post was pure gold as well. But this one in particular.)