Improving Treelords

quantum_mechani · #1 February 11th, 2004, 03:42 PM

It seems to me that for a 50 gem summons, Treelords are not very competitive. There are already plenty of ways to get that level of nature mage, without a head slot the vine men bonus is no better a than nature three mage with a ivy crown, and the high hit points are hard to use since Treelords are immobile.

I was thinking that one way of improving Treelords would be to give them a bonus when casting ritual spells, to represent thier ancient connections with nature magic. The bonus could work like the sites that reduces the cost of ritual spells of a certain school. I also had some other ideas (increasing the vine men bonus, giving them a gem free Version of fairy trod affecting only themselves), however, I think the ritual bonus would be most thematic.

Gandalf Parker · #2 February 11th, 2004, 03:57 PM

I considered the Tree Lords to be Ents. The Ents (in the books at least) had the ability to awaken the semi-aware trees (not completely tree but no longer totally aware ents either). Some units have ways of creating free units which is a powerful increase in a units worth. Maybe the Tree Lords should be able to create .... some sort of lesser treelord? A sapling? vinemen?

[ February 11, 2004, 13:57: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

PDF · #3 February 11th, 2004, 04:25 PM

I've never used Treelords, but if they're immobile I don't think I ever will...who needs immobile lvl 4 nature mages with 250 hp ?

As GP pointed out they look like Ents, they should have a slow movement rate (kinda 1/5).
Easy to mod ..

quantum_mechani · #4 February 11th, 2004, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:
I've never used Treelords, but if they're immobile I don't think I ever will

I think if thier ritual bonus was high enough they would be worthwile. With a 50% bonus you could cast global enchantments like Mother Oak or Gift of Health for bargain prices...

Argitoth · #5 February 11th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Enchantment bonus is not a good idea. No one deserves to have a lesser cost of enchantments. Treelords may have an affinity to nature but it definitely doesn't mean they use less gems than anyone else. Affinity to nature might be their 4 nature magic. Another thing, treelords have nothing to do with health therefore shouldn't be casting gift of health for half the price.

Some good ideas I think are:

1. Autosummoning lesser trees per month (1 per month since you can have up to 3 treelords)
2. Movement should be 1/5

Lesser trees: Someone would have to make the lesser tree. Mindless, magical, poison resistant, size 3 or 4... some of the stats can be like 25 hp, 16 protection, 10 attack, 15 strength... these are just ideas.

quantum_mechani · #6 February 11th, 2004, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Enchantment bonus is not a good idea. No one deserves to have a lesser cost of enchantments.

Do you mean thematicly or from the point of view of balance? As far as balance, there are not very many global spells available to Treelords without empowering, and those they can cast would be available to anyone able to awaken a Treelord in the first place. I also don't see a problem with being more Treelords efficient with gems for rituals, from thier long practice with nature magic.

Argitoth · #7 February 11th, 2004, 06:02 PM

Well first of all, it only costs 10 gems for them to have the ability to cast Mother Oak and Gift of Health. If treelords have an affinity to nature which allows them to cast enchanments for less, then I can say Prince of Death has an affinity to death and therefor should be able to cast Well of Misery for 40 death gems.

I doubt the affinity to nature means anything more than them having a whopping 4 nautre magic. That IS a lot of nature magic in my opinion.

[ February 11, 2004, 16:04: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

ywl · #8 February 11th, 2004, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
It seems to me that for a 50 gem summons, Treelords are not very competitive. There are already plenty of ways to get that level of nature mage, without a head slot the vine men bonus is no better a than nature three mage with a ivy crown, and the high hit points are hard to use since Treelords are immobile.

I was thinking that one way of improving Treelords would be to give them a bonus when casting ritual spells, to represent thier ancient connections with nature magic. The bonus could work like the sites that reduces the cost of ritual spells of a certain school. I also had some other ideas (increasing the vine men bonus, giving them a gem free Version of fairy trod affecting only themselves), however, I think the ritual bonus would be most thematic.

In my opinion, treelord was underpowered in Dom 1 but in Dom 2, it's not that bad.

Two things have changed the formula. First, they now have one more level of magic, Nature 4/Earth 1, Nature 4/Blood 5 & Nature 5. The one additional magic gives them access to something previously impossible, e.g. Ironskin, Gaia's Blessing, Invulnerability (with gems?), Cross-Bleeding. Being able summon one such powerful Nature mage while your're researching for Enchantment, and thus all the domes and protection spells, is not bad. Spells for nature mage of similar power are at high level Conjuration, at least 6.

Second, nature is now more useful in combat with the additional spells. In my test, a single treelord (the Dying Treelord) with no item can take out a weak indie with 40 to 50 light infantries plus archers, killing them to the Last man. It's not impressive but it shows him being useful enough in combat. The Treelords have 250 hitpoints, Protection 16 to 20 and easy access to regeneration and healing spells. It's not trivial to hack one down even though their defense if 0. If you choose to prophetize one, he can easily have up to 500 hitpoints.

Faery Trod is also in Enchantment school. So, for research in a single school, you can get Treelords, protection Domes and teleportation for a small number of troops. It's not a bad deal.

Not sure whether it's thematic, but to increase their power, it's better to give them one or two hand slots and thus access the nature enhancing items.

[ February 11, 2004, 16:46: Message edited by: ywl ]

Potatoman · #9 February 11th, 2004, 07:36 PM

Sounds to me like the best, and easiest, solution would be to make treelord movement 1/2. Slow, but mobile.

Argitoth · #10 February 11th, 2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Potatoman:
Sounds to me like the best, and easiest, solution would be to make treelord movement 1/2. Slow, but mobile.

im up for that. maybe at least 3 movement

Remember though, THESE ARE NOT ENTS from lord of the rings. "Lord of the Rings" ents would have like a movement of 3/15. Those things move fast.