Mod Feedback?

[Wauthan]

I seem to ramble on about this mod in just about every thread I post in. I promise that this is the Last time I'll mention it though. I just completed a mod called "Avatar" that's available both on Illwinters and Arryns excellent sites.

Like all modders I'm curious about what people think about the stuff I created. Is there anyone using it? Is it balanced? Is it fun? Have I simply wasted my time?

To be more specific with my own mod. Is it ok to mix graphics from different games like I have done or does make things look silly? Is there any pretender variation (magic picks, abilities, SC or Caster) that's someone feels is missing from the game?

I sort of hoped that one could use this thread to post feedback on all the mods available at moment, not just my own. Feedback is the mod, map and software creators fuel. Without it projects simply fade and noone is able to learn how to become better at what they do.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im afraid that Im more into maps than mods. But I agree that people have forgotten how to "pay" for free stuff in order to get more of the same.

[Wauthan]

Ehrmm... Yes. I knew I should have put more effort into making some sort of documentation. But I was completely sure that neither Illwinter or Arryn would think it was a worthwhile mod to host. Again my lack of confidence appears to kick me in the butt.

The Pretenders I've exchanged are The Crone, The Frost Father, The Great Mother, The Lord of Fertility, The Divine Glyph, The Sphinx, The Mother of Lions, The Son of the Sea and the Archmage. I've also shifted Virtue from Air to Astral (since Astral is the "Angel" magic). The mod is pretty old so I didn't think about the new ability to create new pretenders. I merely removed all the ones I felt were unbalanced and sent it in.

The Draconian Queen will be nerfed in the next Version. I forgot about the overpowering ability to fly, being surrounded by poisonous fumes and access to Airs protective spells. Making the unit a draconion/hydra hybrid was not a good idea.

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by Wauthan:

Hoburg Alliance Special Edition 1.31 - Joined effort by Teraswaerto, Nekov and Adept.
Another of "must have". Original idea, great description and graphics. Very different experience as a nation, since tactics and strategy must be reconsidered. I find these little guys to be almost underpowered, and have a hard time with them. I guess I've not found a good strategy yet. The AI seems to use them well though.

Thanks for the feedback! Their main strengths are crossbows and fairly cheap sacred troops recruitable everywhere. Not underpowered at all, IMO, perhaps even the opposite, if the right blessing is used.

[Wauthan]

Spoken like a true modder. I've propably been too involved with my mad modding experiments to give the your mod the time it deserves.

By the way... Anyone interested in creating a Trolls Special Edition? The new MooseRider unit seems promising and Bogus with crew could be used as unit templates.

[ April 25, 2004, 14:40: Message edited by: Wauthan ]

[Wauthan]

Ulmpunk 1.1 - By Bowlingballhead.
This is one of my favorite mods. The idea is very appealing to me and the units have no equivalent in the game. Balance is precarious here since this nation litteraly steamrolls some nations and is overpowered by others. I've tried my best to find alternate sprites for this mod but without success. I have been hoping for a 1.2 Version that uses the new ability to make custom weapons and armor.

Ashigaka Shogunate 2.0 - By The Potatoman.
So far this is the mod that ranks the highest in quality and presentation. It's the "must have". It's the mod I've been using as a guide in my own unsuccesful attempts to create a new faction. The sole problem I've had is that the Ninja units (Jonin, Chunin and Genin) are nigh unstoppable. I removed their glamor ability and things worked out better.

The Kami 1.0 - By 1000yd_stare.
A very cool idea behind this mod. And a good preparation to Zens upcoming map over China (if that project is still running?). I know next to nothing about Chinese mythology so I'll use this mod as a future reference. I've had some trouble though. The arquebus gets a +7 bonus to precision in the game and thus is a very high precision and deadly weapon. The Dragons resource cost could be upped considerably. They might not have equipment but surely they are rare enough to take quite a few resources to find? The Temples are very original and fun but isn't defence a bit high? It could be hard to parry and avoid enemy weapons when balancing a house on a shoulder.

Devil's Lair 3.00 - By Tapani Anttila.
I was really suprised how well this mod works. I had imagined that the devils would simply have flattened the opposition. But in effect they are a sort of powervariation of Ermor. You got a small powerful army that can be banished into nothing by a determined sacred opposition. Having the high unrest sites in the capital is pure genius. You have to expand *fast* so you can get a secondary headquarters up and running. Balance is good, even if the demons are on the higher end of power. They make excellent AI opponents if you want a good challange. I was suprised to see the holy priests though, as demons are reknowned for being not-so-holy. The Fire Demon makes the Moloch look like real "pretender".

Knights of the Light 1.1 - By Sube.
Sort of the mirror opposite of the Devil's Lair. These guys are much like basic Ulm. Only more expensive, tougher and with powerful magic. Vulnerable to swarming but with very high quality units these guys have hard time in the early game. Especially if they start close to another nation that can overrun them before they can up their numbers. The graphics used are very interesting (love their helmets) and the descriptions are well written. This a good mod for a player that dislikes hordes of units but is tired of starving Jotun giants. Using these guys against Devil's Lair is both very thematic and makes for a good game.

Hoburg Alliance Special Edition 1.31 - Joined effort by Teraswaerto, Nekov and Adept.
Another of "must have". Original idea, great description and graphics. Very different experience as a nation, since tactics and strategy must be reconsidered. I find these little guys to be almost underpowered, and have a hard time with them. I guess I've not found a good strategy yet. The AI seems to use them well though.

False Dawn 0.99 - By Void.
Void has always been a source of good original ideas, even if some of them have been a bit "wild". Turning R'lyeh into a nation of illusionists is a very interesting notion. They are VERY different like this. Hopefully Void will pick up this mod again and expand it a bit.

Arco Mod 1.1 - By PDF.
This is what happens when developers run into fans with a knowledge of history to rival their own. While the change is slight in effect it is nonetheless a nice mod, with possibly the best unit graphics in any mod (I promptly swiped them and edited them to fit my own nefarious plans). It could use an overhaul with the new tools and be expanded a bit.

Warrior King of Ulm 1.04 and Avatar of Ulm 1.04 - By Peter von Kleinsmid.
While I didn't really like the idea behind this mod it is base I used to create my own Avatar mod. Which explains why "Lunas Chosen" looks suspiciously like the Warrior King and why it's the first unit in the mod. Many thanks Mr von Kleinsmid.

Mighty Milita 1.0 - By Targa.
I don't if it was what Targa planned but making all the milita sacred really improved the AI. Sacred units need temples in order to be built. Since the AI don't build many temples these lowtier units fell beyond its reach. Thus overall quality of the AI armies rose dramaticly. I liked this effect so much that used it as the base for my now defunct (since the Last patch contains so many changes) Empowerment mod. Many thanks Targa.

PrePatch Units Mod 2.073 - by Saber Cherry.
A mod that was rendered (mostly) uneeded by the latest patch. It still stands testiment to just how much a devoted player can contribute to the community if given the tools to do so. Saber Cherry is possibly the heavyweight champion of this forum. By accident I managed to make my Empowerment mod incompatible with his which lead to the annoying task of joining both mods into one. A dumb mistake but a good lesson in mod planning.

[ April 25, 2004, 14:33: Message edited by: Wauthan ]

[PDF]

I thought that in 2.11 *new* pretenders could be created, but your mod override existing ones : am I wrong about the feature ?
What pretenders does it change (I mean, which ones get replaced) ?

Now I have to have a look at your mod before talking further

[1000yd_stare]

Originally posted by Wauthan:


The Kami 1.0 - By 1000yd_stare.
A very cool idea behind this mod. And a good preparation to Zens upcoming map over China (if that project is still running?). I know next to nothing about Chinese mythology so I'll use this mod as a future reference. I've had some trouble though. The arquebus gets a +7 bonus to precision in the game and thus is a very high precision and deadly weapon. The Dragons resource cost could be upped considerably. They might not have equipment but surely they are rare enough to take quite a few resources to find? The Temples are very original and fun but isn't defence a bit high? It could be hard to parry and avoid enemy weapons when balancing a house on a shoulder.

Ah, feedback! Just what I need, please note the Version: ONE!
Now, onto your questions.
1. The arquebus should have a precision of 7, which I made to LOWER the units natural precision of 10. The idea is a short range (15), lousy precision weapon, which is what an early firearm should be. It sounds like the precision adds 7 to the units inherent precision, which is the exact opposite of the intention.
2. Kami is japanese mythos, not chinese, although there is some interweaving.
3. Dragons might be underpriced- any recommendations on resource cost?
4. the shrine defense was sort of envisioned to be that beefy because of the need to hack apart the wooden shrine as well as the porters. That being said, I am open to recommendations.

The ones I am really concerned about are the fox and raccoon units- I fear they might be too cheap.
I don't ever plan to add other recruitable units with spell casting abilities - the fact that you have no magic using units that can use magic items in arm/head/body/feet slots is a purposeful decision.

[Wauthan]

1. Hmmm... that would put in par with a high damage sling then. Precision should be -3.

2. Well that shows the level of my ignorance.

3. Dragons should perhaps be set to resource 35. A high resource site could create three of them each turn and a good castle could churn out six. With the high gold cost it's no real worry but if good fortune smiles you might net 2000 gold one turn. Instant dragon army with resource of 1.

4. Protection and especially hitpoints reflect a sturdy construction with four guards better than high defence (which reflects agility, skill with weapons and fleetness of foot).

I was sort of suprised to see the raccoon and fox to be size 2 (as large as a man) and about as strong. You could make them hoburg size and strength, and up their defence a little. They will hard to hit and tie up a lot of units but have a hard time hurting armored foes.

Version 0.9 of my own mod is on its way. Seems I pulled a MOO3...

[PDF]

While we are at discussing the Kmi mod :
- I was surprised to see that the Sohei were plain medium inf without any particular skill. They could have more flavor : high morale, low MR, some more fighting skill, berserk ...
They should also have base enc at 3 (foot soldier base) and not 5
- I've no problem with Dragon costing 1 res (as any "unarmored" or naturally armored unit in fact), but they are waaaaay too cheap, at 180 gp for flying mages strong as a Jotun and with crazy stats (att, def at more than 20, prec 17+ !!)
And with enc 0 they are unfatigable, really broken...
If you want them to keep that sort of stats they should rather cost 800 to 1000 gp ! . Even with stats in the 15-17 area they should cost 400-500 gp .
But they should have some slots, at least a couple misc.

The mod really needs to be balanced, but I like the theme, don't take this as harsh, scornful critic