Tonnage %

Trachmyr · #1 April 17th, 2001, 01:21 AM

I would like to see a change in tonnage for componets, where you could add 10%, 20%, etc. instead of an actual finite number (you would still be able to use actual finite tonnage though! This would be in addition to what we already have.) The componet would then weigh that % of the ship's weight (and Tonnage structure would be read as Xhit-points per 10 tons of weight, same for resource costs.) This would be great for bridges/engines/afterburners/Quantum reactors/etc. (plus a bunch of mods... power-plants/enginering/etc.)

What do you think? yes/no/maybe

Noble713 · #2 April 17th, 2001, 01:32 AM

Yeah, I wanted that for some components too (can't think of what though). Maybe it was for armor, which you could add in 1% or 5% Groups, and stronger armor would give more protection per percentage.

Trachmyr · #3 April 17th, 2001, 01:36 AM

Deffinatly, armor would be a great way to use tonnage%... It's too easy to mix a few types of armor (i.e, stealth/scattering/emmissive) and get all the bonuses... yet it's diff. to put stealth armor on escorts because there is rarely enough room.

Suicide Junkie · #4 April 17th, 2001, 01:39 AM

As a programmer, I could easily see that getting totally out of hand. It would be hard to implement.

As a simple alternative, make sure the ship restrictions work, and then design components that are only allowed on one ship size. Copy-Paste & you've got the same effect with the abilities that are in the game now.
This would also allow you to change abilities & any detail about the component.
EG. Escort Shielding I, 100pts/10KT, 200 minerals
Dreadnaught Shielding I, 750pts/100KT, 500 minerals
to reflect the smaller size & denser shielding around an ES

My key point being that these ship <-> component restrictions are already supposed to work. (Don't have the latest patches yet)

Specifically:

quote:
Custom Group:
A number which allows the creation of custom Groups of components. This number
is referenced by the Ship Sizes when they use the Abilities "Do Not Allow
Components of Custom Group" and "Only Allow Components of Custom Group".

Does anybody know it this works in the latest patch? This one thing would allow the changes you are describing.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 17 April 2001).]

Aussie Gamer · #5 April 17th, 2001, 02:24 AM

I think that the game has the component % already in it.
You can't put as many shield components, due to size of the ship and the component, on an escort than you can with a Battleship.

I think that it fine the way it is.

Use the KISS principle and see that the game works fine.

Suicide Junkie · #6 April 17th, 2001, 02:29 AM

quote:
I think that the game has the component % already in it.
You can't put as many shield components, due to size of the ship and the component, on an escort than you can with a Battleship.
I think that it fine the way it is.

What are you talking about??

The game definitely does not have % tonnage in it.

The best use for this would be to make Dreadnaught engines weigh 100KT each, while Escort engines are only 10KT.

It would only make sense to require a bigger engine on a bigger ship, see?

As it is now, 20KT worth of engines will propel a baseship at the same speed as an escort!!!

Trachmyr · #7 April 17th, 2001, 02:40 AM

Mr. Junkie,

I too am a programmer (or I once was), and I do not think it would be that difficult, it would only require a subroutine to determine the componet size/HP/Cost when it reads "%" in the string... I agree it won't be simple, but I doubt it would be hard either. I fully am aware that once restrictions are working, this would only be a way to reduce work on the modders side (The side I'm on

), but it can still be useful... Engines are a prime example, even now if you use "engines per move", you must be careful not to generate "Range Check errors" due to having alot of movement to move your big ships. However, if they get the restrictions fully working (Not just ship size over/under XXX... but only for "name" ship type (or xxx tons)), I would be satisfied.

Marty Ward · #8 April 17th, 2001, 02:52 AM

Why should a dreadnaughts engine be physically larger that an escorts? The physical size of the engine on an aircraft carrier is not much larger than on a cruiser. The power is different but both ships have approximately the same cruising speed.
What I find strange is each engine gives the same tactical movement to any size ship.

Trachmyr · #9 April 17th, 2001, 03:01 AM

Why? Well because (in space), speed is a simple matter of trust/mass... the greater the thrust to mass ratio, the greater the acceleration (as there is no real topspeed in space (well almost, there is drag caused by the ether in space (dust,ect.))... thus a dreadnought would need 6.6666666 times the thrust of an escort to have the same "speed", and we should assume that since you're using the best tech, it would translate to 6.6666666 times the size.

In the example you gave (carrier vs. cruiser), your not just talking about acceleration but top speed... which has less to do with mass/thrust ration and more to due with hydrodynamics...

Suicide Junkie · #10 April 17th, 2001, 03:01 AM

Well, deciding whether to use the % or absolute tonnage from the text files would be a problem. You'd have to rework the code that reads the text files. It expects a fixed sequence of entries.
(The thing can't handle double blank lines without choking, I'm not sure how easy it would be to change)

You'd also have to repeatedly recalculate the actual size of the component when changing the ship designs, and make sure it works right.

By using the "custom group" restrictions, you just have to check each component on the ship to see if it is in a custom group forbidden to the ship, and do that only when you normally update the "warnings" box in the ship design screen.
Then all you have to worry about is the AI's design process, whatever the process is that is used to check it for validity.

Instead of using an "engines per move" trick, and using 30 engines on a baseship, you could have a "Baseship Engine" that weighs 100KT and gives 2 movement, and an "Escort Engine" that weighs 5kT and gives 1 movement.
The baseship would only be able to use "baseship engines" with the custom group "10", while the escort can only use "escort engines" with a custom group "2".

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 17 April 2001).]