WOT End of the world and need help

Gozra · #1 October 24th, 2006, 08:26 PM

First the help: I am in Thule Greenland and the DSL went down last Friday. I have no way of contacting anyone. The part is on order and will be flown in hopefully This week. IF weather permits.

I am Gozguy on Play By Web

Now for the way off topic:

Has anyone heard of Worlds in Collision and Velikofsky or The Saturn Myth and Dave Talbott? THe Electric Universe? I am curious to see what opinion you all would have I think that they have a strong case with the evidence they show.

capnq · #2 October 25th, 2006, 07:44 PM

The first hit I got on Google for Worlds in Collision was The Skeptic's Dictionary.

I've never heard of Talbott's work, but merely mentioning him in the same sentence with Velikovsky is a severe hit to his credibility.

Gozra · #3 October 26th, 2006, 07:41 PM

I still need help the DSL is still off line and I cannot get any private internet access. I am in most of the Devnull games and a bund of the poportions and on KOTH game.

So what do you understand about Velikovsky Did you look at the Electric Universe material? Is there any scientist anywhere that has seen a black hole?

Phoenix-D · #4 October 26th, 2006, 07:55 PM

You can't see a black hole, more or less by definiton. What you -can- do is predict what it would do, and look for those. By that standard we have found quite a few. (or something that behaves the same way).

In case you're inclined to dismiss it on that basis- keep in mind that's how we know about the existence of the electron and the atom, not to mention a load of other stuff.

parabolize · #5 October 26th, 2006, 10:13 PM

Don't worry about the koth game.

Parasite · #6 October 27th, 2006, 05:08 PM

Velikofsky > Velikovsky...

Check out "Kicking the Sacred Cow" by James P. Hogan. One of my favorite authors. A chapter is devoted to Velikovsky. Also look at his web site where there is a list of books called "The Heretics' Bookstore". It's scientific heresy, not the religious kind by the way. It has several of Velikovsky books.

I have always wondered about the Red Spot on Jupiter. I would say there must be something causing it. V's explination is as good as any I have heard.

Talking about mosquito deaths in another thread. Look at the chapter on DDT. It shows how these were driven almost to 0 by DDT, then shot back up into the millions when the DDT ban went into effect.

narf poit chez BOOM · #7 October 27th, 2006, 07:33 PM

'Is as good as any other explanation' is not the same as 'Is a good explanation'. It is, however, roughly equivalent to 'No scientifically-proven explanation'.

In order to accept anything as a scientific fact, it must A) Fit the facts best. B) Those facts must provide proof for its validity and C) it must not be disproven. In order to accept something as a scientific theory, it must be disprovable.

(That's my understanding, anyway.)

Any number of things could be causing the red spot. Untill we have a way to check any of them, any theory put forth is simply speculation.

That is not to say that 'scientific fact' is the same thing as 'objectively true'. Nor is 'scientifically disproven' the same thing as 'objectively untrue'. Science is nothing more than an approximation of reality, filtered through the senses, mind and objectivity or lack thereof of the researchers.

It is, however, one of the most reliable systems of approximation we have. The only ones comparable are the 'It happened to me' approximation and...Can't think of any others.

capnq · #8 October 27th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Gozra said: So what do you understand about Velikovsky

That he was at best a crackpot with no knowledge of basic physics, and at worst a deliberate fraud.

Quote:

Did you look at the Electric Universe material?

Yes, and I regret wasting that much time on it. Talbott apparently takes Velikovsky seriously, which in my book makes him worse than Velikovsky.

As was quoted at The Skeptic's Dictionary:

Quote:

The less one knows about science, the more plausible Velikovsky's scenario appears.... --Leroy Ellenberger

Baron Munchausen · #9 October 27th, 2006, 09:50 PM

That he was at best a crackpot with no knowledge of basic physics, and at worst a deliberate fraud.

Ding! Ding!

You win the prize, a free URL full of pointers to information about just how cracked Velikovsky's pot really was:

http://www.astrosociety.org/educatio...eudobib07.html

Probably the best reference in this list is to the work of a former 'follower' of Velikovsky who finally figured out how ridiculous his ideas were:

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/velidelu.html