How is PPP (Puppet Political Parties) Supposed to Work?

MegaTrain · #1 December 4th, 2001, 08:17 PM

I did a search on the topic, and nobody seems to agree. It seems that the intent of the intelligence operation is actually to CONVERT the planet over to your empire, like Ship Capture.

But I just finished my first operation, and my report said "We have incited the people of xxxxx to break away from the xxxxx and form their own government, sire!"
But when I click on the planet, it looks unclaimed and unpopulated! Is this right?

So is PPP supposed to entice the planet over to your empire? Or do the results vary--sometimes they join you, sometimes they form their own new AI empire?

Or is this a bug? (There were other enemy planets and ships in the system, I suppose they could have battled, and I wouldn't have received a report.)
Thanks for your help!

bearclaw · #2 December 4th, 2001, 08:47 PM

IIRC, origianlly, PPP's, when successful, always converted the planet to your empire. Now, I belive it was changed in a patch, one of 3 things can happen.

1) the Incited population formes thier own government (I think this is most likely)

2) The incited population joins your empire (second most likely)

3) the incited population joins another empire all together (I've only seen this once)

As far as I could tell, the deciding factors are your relations with the target empire, your location from the target planet, and if you have any ships nearby.

Of course, I could be wrong on this, but this is what it seems to be from my observations.

Taqwus · #3 December 4th, 2001, 09:33 PM

In addition, the intel op seems to take place at the end of the user's turn (at least in traditional turn-based, haven't checked simultaneous), meaning that the original owner might see the planet declare itself independent and then immediately annihilate the rebellious colony the same turn, which would explain its emptiness (and you wouldn't get a battle report since you weren't a participant if they didn't join you).

MegaTrain · #4 December 6th, 2001, 07:48 PM

Ah. I figured it out.
The same turn the PPP took place, my Last remaining ships in the system were killed by my enemy.

Before you say "well duh, if you can't see into the system you can't see populated planets", I DID have a presence in the system: a minefield.

I had previously assumed that ANY presence in a system is enough to see its current contents, and I know it to be true for ships, planets, sats, and fighters, but apparently, just having a minefield in a system isn't enough to see its contents.

I took a ship back into the system, and there it was, a newly-declared separate empire. I even got to establish diplomatic relations with the new world.

Here's an interesting question: does this newly-independent race have all the technical knowledge the original race had? So if I attack this new planet and force it to surrender, in just 2 steps (PPP and force surrender) I'll get EVERY TECHNICAL RESEARCH AREA my opponent has? I think I'll give it a try

.

Phoenix-D · #5 December 6th, 2001, 07:55 PM

"So if I attack this new planet and force it to surrender, in just 2 steps (PPP and force surrender) I'll get EVERY TECHNICAL RESEARCH AREA my opponent has?"

No. If your opponent surrenders, you do not get his tech. Only what you can analyze from any ships he has..

Phoenix-D

MegaTrain · #6 December 6th, 2001, 08:33 PM

quote:
No. If your opponent surrenders, you do not get his tech. Only what you can analyze from any ships he has..

Really? Even if that is true for human players (which I don't know if it is or not), keep in mind this is not a human opponent, but now an independent AI neutral race.

The 2 times during this current game that a neutral AI race surrendered to me, I got all their tech.
(Or at least, I got 1 level of each tech that he had higher than me. ie, I had mineral mining level 1, he had level 3. When he surrendered to me, I gained level 2.)

So the question really is, does a planet that secedes through PPP maintain the same technical knowledge level as the original race?

Taqwus · #7 December 6th, 2001, 09:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MegaTrain:

So the question really is, does a planet that secedes through PPP maintain the same technical knowledge level as the original race?

Yes. This results in somewhat odd behavior, such as the fact that it's often better to have a PPP'd planet become independent and then surrender instead of joining you directly; if it joins you directly, it doesn't bring its tech along.

At least as of 1.49, you still get exactly one full advance in each tech area in which the original owner (and hence, the splinter colony) had a lead over you when the splinter colony surrenders. Of course, since the splinter doesn't inherit comm channels, you might not be able to contact it to demand a surrender if you didn't target a colony you could see.

Phoenix-D · #8 December 6th, 2001, 10:19 PM

I've never gottena any tech from surrenders.. hmm.

Phoenix-D

MegaTrain · #9 December 7th, 2001, 05:55 AM

Maybe you always had a higher tech level than your opponents.

mac5732 · #10 December 7th, 2001, 06:37 PM

I've had AI races, after they surrendered to me, give me all tech I didn't have at the level they had, the only exception was their special tech like crystal, temporal, etc, these I have never gottn, only the regular Tech. Happened just Last night, the Tolkyn (can't spell it right) surrendered, obtained all their tech, example, I only had plasma msl 3, they had 5 and I got level 5.,

just some ideas mac