Non-Function: System Maintenence Reduction?

Cylapse · #1 June 24th, 2002, 05:36 PM

I have this ability turned on for a system on one of my maps, and we are playen a TCP/IP game... for some reason I see no changes in the maintenence for ships in the system, even though the it is supposed to bring it down by 50%... My head-trip? Game lack of functionality? Whatsup?

Baron Munchausen · #2 June 24th, 2002, 05:43 PM

"Turned on"? Meaning you have built a facility with this ability in the system? Were the ships present when the facility was completed? Have you moved any ships in and out of the system and check their maintenance reports at both locations?

[ June 24, 2002, 16:43: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

geoschmo · #3 June 24th, 2002, 05:46 PM

Cynapse. This ability only functions for facilities. You can't use it on a component or use it as an inherant ability of the system, or give it to any planet or the star or anything like that. It has to be on a facility in the system or it doesn't work, and it only affects the ships of the empire who owns the facility.

I wanted to use it for a scenario so I ran a bunch of tests one time and confirmed all that.

Geoschmo

geoschmo · #4 June 24th, 2002, 06:02 PM

Oh hey, light bulb moment here. Why not give a facility with this ability to every race. Make an expensive "Ship Maintainance facility" that you can build in your established systems. And then increase base maintenace across the board. This will simulate how it should be more difficult to keep your ships and fleets mainatined when they are out of your own established territory. You could build a bunch of ships for defense, but if you want to go offensive and leave your own space it will cost more for upkeep. This will also encourage conquering of planets instead of glassing them as you will want to capture the maint facilities intact so the war effort doesn't stagnate while you are waiting to build them in newly captured systems.

One think I never tested is if this ability stacks with multiple facilities. If so you could give a small maint reduction to space yards and resupply bases, maybe even space ports. This would seem logical as they are more common in well developed systems. Would give you the overall effect that the farther you get fomr your own planets, the harder it is to maintain your ships.

Geoschmo

Baron Munchausen · #5 June 24th, 2002, 06:10 PM

Ah, but this will hit the same wall as every other 'bright idea' about altering game mechanics: The AI can't handle it!

Think about it. Will the AI check if the maintenance increase caused by sending it's 30 ships on the attack will push it's budget over the limit set in its config files? So, when it goes on the attack it will find itself 'over-extended' and start scrapping things -- probably stationary things like shipyard bases. Then those ships on the attack ...if they actually attack and don't just turn around and com back for resupply... will often get partially or mostly destroyed and the AI is doubly in the hole.

It might be good for 'human only' games but it'll just trip-up the AI.

geoschmo · #6 June 24th, 2002, 07:10 PM

Yeah. I gave up caring about the AI a long time ago though.

I wouldn't care if you just gave the AI lower maintenace. Let them cheat, at least the game would be more interesting. Being just a collection of ones and zeros resident in a bunch of transistors, the AI doesn't have any concept of realism and fun anyway.

Geoschmo

[ June 24, 2002, 18:15: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

rextorres · #7 June 24th, 2002, 07:52 PM

I can't imagine the point of playing the AI when you have real people to be able to play against.

Having a reason not to glass your opponent's planets might make the game more interesting from a strategic standpoint.

I know some people may disagree, but I've come to the conclusion that once you get a couple of your opponents planets - for the atmosphere breathers -it's better to just eliminate them as quickly as possible (by extermination) than to try to assimilate them. The resource gain with assimilation is negligible compared to the time and resources required to do this.

Another option might to add a happiness type that gives negative happiness when you glass a planet. I was thought that it was kind of weird that peaceful happiness type didn't do this.

Baron Munchausen · #8 June 24th, 2002, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by augustinetorres:
I can't imagine the point of playing the AI when you have real people to be able to play against.

Having a reason not to glass your opponent's planets might make the game more interesting from a strategic standpoint.

I know some people may disagree, but I've come to the conclusion that once you get a couple of your opponents planets - for the atmosphere breathers -it's better to just eliminate them as quickly as possible (by extermination) than to try to assimilate them. The resource gain with assimilation is negligible compared to the time and resources required to do this.

Another option might to add a happiness type that gives negative happiness when you glass a planet. I was thought that it was kind of weird that peaceful happiness type didn't do this.

Yes, I have asked MM to add a happiness modifier for number of enemy population killed as well as your own. And a modifier for enemy colonies in the system as well as ships. Maybe then AI empires would be able to understand and enforce 'borders' instead of fighting like roiling ant colonies.

But I still think that we need to jack the planetary damage ratio up several orders of magnitude and give planetary weapons the ability to cancel the ratio. Then ordinary ship weapons will be practically useless against planets once the WPs are destroyed and you'll really need special weapons -- or troops -- to take a planet.

Suicide Junkie · #9 June 24th, 2002, 11:12 PM

To help discourage planet glassing, make the production rate of new colonies very low.
If, instead of building up a planet in 5 turns, it would take years, then captures would be extremely more rewarding.

You can also try increasing the value reduction of a glassing, to 40% or something, in which case the invader gets next to nothing in spoils unless he captures.

Will · #10 June 25th, 2002, 02:31 AM

Could also use Resupply Depots as incentives... if they're modded to take a few years to build instead of a few turns, and bases have their unlimited supply removed, and Q-Reactors produce a set amount of supplies instead of unlimited... of course, that would kill the AI.

Just an idea...