The answer is 162

jim · #1 July 9th, 2002, 05:03 AM

The Q: How many ships would the Rage build?

I started a non-Gold game, simul move, max tech, 3 Homeworlds, no intel, no mines, no stellar manip in a large-medium galaxy. I tweaked the Rage to minimize the traits not operative (like research), put to High Difficulty, High Bonus.

I set off to colonize and find the Rage. Once I found them, I chose good choke points and build warp point defense bases. I had to use the forward side because I was putting the Rage as #1 player (in non-Gold battles, recall that the firing is done in order of player #).

No problemo. I walled off the Rage into about 15% of the cluster galaxy and settled down to wait.

And wait.

And wait.

The Rage colonized everything (162 planets), then built fleets and sent them to sit next to my visible warp defenses.

They built 162 ships, and stopped.

I exited and came in and peeked at the Rage stats. They had enormous stockpiles of all resources, and were using far less than they produced. However, they built no more ships.

I put together a fleet or two, and crushed their fleets loitering at the warp point defenses.

And settled back.

And waited.

The Rage built, guess what, 162 ships and came back to loiter.

The game had been done for me to check certain defense base things, but the Rage would not attack the defense points.

So, why 162? And why won't they attack?

disabled · #2 July 9th, 2002, 02:37 PM

Maybe 162 is the state of total happyiness.

zen. · #3 July 9th, 2002, 05:45 PM

Their great leader/prophet/messiah on the 163rd ship never showed up to lead them into glorious battle?

zen

Alpha Kodiak · #4 July 9th, 2002, 06:05 PM

So you discovered the magic number did you. Now you know the secret to the Rage!

Actually, I have no idea why they stopped at 162 ships, but they might be limited to one per planet if you look at all of the ship types in aggregate. Which Version of the Rage are you using? The different Versions have slightly different build rates. I can check the construction files for the specific Version (if I have that Version - I lost some of the earliest Versions due to computer problems, but I have the later Versions), to see what the total limit would be. Though it depends on what state it thinks it is in, so that may be why it is limited. I tried to keep the size of the fleet lower in non-combat states to keep maintenance from being a problem. The AI may consider itself in Infrastructure state, so it won't build as many warships.

As to why they don't attack, the AI does a very poor job coordinating its activities. It has gotten better in Gold than before, but still has problems. If you watch it turn after turn, you would probably see fleets moving across Rage territory for seemingly no purpose, only to turn back and go the other direction. The various ministers see a need for something and grab some ships to go do it, but they may not be close to the problem. Then, after a few turns they don't see that need anymore, so they send those ships off in another direction.

Send an attack fleet into Rage territory and start destroying some of their outlying colonies. See if that gets a rise out of them. Although, the minister problem mentioned above will still give them problems.

[ July 09, 2002, 17:05: Message edited by: Alpha Kodiak ]

Captain Kwok · #5 July 10th, 2002, 01:22 AM

I'm sure Alpha Kodiak would be able to explain their behaviour more so than I.

They probably build 162 ships because their AI files probably state to have one ship for every planet. I'm not sure why don't attack...perhaps they are trying to change their murderous ways and be peaceful for once.

jim · #6 July 11th, 2002, 03:36 AM

Alpha Kodiak

The Rage txt "read me" file says it is Version 2.3

jim · #7 July 12th, 2002, 02:10 AM

<bump>

Alpha Kodiak?

Alpha Kodiak · #8 July 12th, 2002, 05:46 PM

Sorry it took a while to get back to you on this, RL has been just a tad hectic lately.

Unfortunately, now that I have had time to look at it, I really don't know the answer for sure. In all states, assuming all tech was known (including all stellar manipulation techs), there should be a minimum of something in excess of two hundred ships. The only thing that I can think of is that it thinks it is in infrastructure mode, which would only build 81 attack ships and 32 (33?) carriers for for 162 planets, and it is not building all of the supporting (especially stellar manipulation) ships. Then again, who knows what the AI is really doing?

One of the trickiest parts (at least for me) of setting up the ship construction file for an AI is setting up the builds so that it doesn't bankrupt the AI in the early-to-mid part of the game, but allows the AI to grow to maximum strength in the later game. I've noticed in the past that the Rage usually starts off very strong but slips back in the later part of the game, and this may explain that to an extent. They are usually pretty good at keeping their economy stable through most of the game, but that may be reducing the amount of ships built later in the game.

Hmmm... It is about time that the Rage gets a rework to use the new SEIV Gold features more efficiently. Perhaps I will look into ways to beef up their late-game fleet.