Lack of middle ground pretenders

[B0rsuk]

Hey

I noticed that there are basically two kinds of pretenders in Dominions(2-3).

Big, costly 'giant' type pretenders, with 60+ hp, very poor ability to learn magic (cost 50+); generally designed for being SCs, I think.

Then there are little 'rainbow' pretenders like Archmage, Druid, Great Sage. These cost very little, but are also very fragile and it's probably very risky to use them in combat as support casters or something. It's probably just site searching, research and rituals with them. New paths are very cheap (10) for these pretenders.

I see no (or very, very little) middle ground pretenders. I'd like to pay like 50 design points and get something that's perhaps too weak to go into melee, but can serve as support caster and survive a battle if I'm cautious. And I'd like path costs to be fairly reasonable, like 20-30. I'd use Ritual of Returning etc.
There are immortal pretenders, but these are VERY expensive.
20-30 hp would be enough for me. National mages with so much hp aren't too rare.

The only pretender that fits description for me is Phoenix. Decent body for a support caster, immortal, already starts with 2 paths. I'd like more pretenders like this. With Phoenix, the problem is it doesn't have very many slots for spell boosters.
---

Why there's such a gap in pretender choices ? Am I missing something ? I suppose I could design a Manticore (cost 0) and give it two paths ( cost 100) to get a decent support caster, but I still feel quite limited.

[Boron]

The gk is also such a pretender.
Ok he costs 120 points but only 20 points per path. With enough buffs the GK can even be used as SC, though it is risky.

[Endoperez]

An interesting question. Especially for me as I made a mod which basically adds just this kind of national pretender. Would you care to test Anansi mod for Machaka?

[PDF]

Yup, I too noted an increased number of expensive giant-types pretenders, and not more (if not less), middle-ground ones than in Dom2... VQ and GK are too expensive, and the only other "middle guy" than Phoenix is the Virtue.

[Nerfix]

And Moloch and PoD.

[B0rsuk]

It's no wonder Dominions2 was dominated by SuperCombatants. I see SC pretenders, Rainbow pretenders, and scale/bless immobile pretenders.

I have a feeling KO loves SC's. I almost expect him to post here, his message containing at least one smiley.

[Nerfix]

KO loves big godly gods, not necessarily SC's.

[Endoperez]

What kind of a god is a god who isn't godly?

[mivayan]

I'd like to pay like 50 design points and get something that's perhaps too weak to go into melee, but can serve as support caster and survive a battle if I'm cautious. And I'd like path costs to be fairly reasonable, like 20-30. I'd use Ritual of Returning etc.
There are immortal pretenders, but these are VERY expensive.

Something like 3 points in 4 different schools?
(dominions 2, patch 2.11. Old. maybe some things are unchanged?)

Mother of lions: 344
Lich: 350
Golden naga: 288. (100 points, 100 hp, 20 path cost, 5 slots)
***** queen: 240. (16 hp as human, 25 as werewolf... oddly doesn't lose magic paths. bug?)
Great enchantress: 229. (55 points, 9 hp, 10 path cost, 7 slots)

A cheap rainbow with 25 hp doesn't seem out of the question. Is easy site searching the reason it doesn't exist?

[Frostmourne27]

mivayan said:
Mother of lions: 344
Lich: 350
Golden naga: 288. (100 points, 100 hp, 20 path cost, 5 slots)
***** queen: 240. (16 hp as human, 25 as werewolf... oddly doesn't lose magic paths. bug?)
Great enchantress: 229. (55 points, 9 hp, 10 path cost, 7 slots)

Lich is now 100 (90?, 110?) points, so it is too exzpensive (to be a middle road pretender) and nagas no longer exsist (they are now patala national summons.) Not sure about ***** Queen, but Hag now has death magic so it might be changed a bit. Great Enchantress as two points of migc now (Earth and Astral) but is still semi-cheap, so it is probabbly a middle road pretender. IIRC mother of lions is magically weak, but a demigod platform, and would make an excellent SC.