Realistic settings?

[qwetry]

Hi all!

A question about this part of manual:


"In real life, for a platoon to eject 1 enemy squad from its position can be expected to take 20 to 30 minutes (10 to 15 turns), and an hour if it does
not go too well. In WinSPWW2, this will not take quite as long."


Can I get a realistic timing (wanting "20 minutes to 1 hour to eject 1 enemy squad from its position" ) by mean of raising infantry toughness setting?
If yes, what percentage should get winSP more realistic?

[DRG]

It takes longer in real life because real life troops aren't so eager to get themselves killed as gamers do and are therefore far more cautious

[Mobhack]

It takes longer in real life since troops are individuals, who only know what is in front of them or what they have been told. Not Prussian automata run by a God-player with 100% knowledge of the situation.

Consider a SP universe road crossing. A battalion is going north to south, and another one is merrily proceeding east to west. No enemy is about to cause hiccups. It is night time... In the SP universe, the God-player simply individually moves all elements of both and there are absolutely no snarl ups or traffic jams and everything moves at full speed. Piece of cake!. Now consider the real world situation... (There is a reason for the real world planning rule of thumb that "a column proceeds at an average speed of half the speed of its slowest unit")

There is a reason there are MPs in real life armies, who prepare movement plans before troop movements, and traffic lights (or at least, give way signs) at crossings in the real world. Neither are required in the SP-verse. You are in total control. You have a 100% accurate map, and you have 100% accurate knowledge of where all your units actually are, and what they are even doing. Luxuries that even the modern digital command and control systems have not yet delivered.

It is a game and not a simulation.

So that is why we say take the number of turns played and multiply by (about) 5 minutes to get a sense of what it would have taken in reality. All the "dead time" that normal human fears and snafus and natural indolence (no slipping off for a crafty smoke for any of your digital squaddies!) introduce are removed by you the all-seeing, all controlling "Player God" figure.

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

It is a game and not a simulation.

So that is why we say take the number of turns played and multiply by (about) 5 minutes to get a sense of what it would have taken in reality.

OK, but the manual says "One game move (player 1 turn plus player 2 turn) represents roughly 3 minutes [my emphasis] of 'real time'." (That always seemed pretty short to me.) Or are you suggesting that the 3 minutes be multiplied by 5, so that, say, a 30-turn scenario (90 minutes in game time scale) would probably take more like 450 minutes, or 7-and-a-half hours in real combat? Thanks.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by jivemi

OK, but the manual says "One game move (player 1 turn plus player 2 turn) represents roughly 3 minutes [my emphasis] of 'real time'." (That always seemed pretty short to me.) Or are you suggesting that the 3 minutes be multiplied by 5, so that, say, a 30-turn scenario (90 minutes in game time scale) would probably take more like 450 minutes, or 7-and-a-half hours in real combat? Thanks.

Game time as said is about 4 minutes a turn, easy to check as this game gets it right by looking at RL & game speeds/movement rates.

Things get resolved a lot quicker in this game than real life due to eye of God & very limited command issues.
You can react & bring meaningful fire to bear far quicker than in real life.

You have eyes on an enemy unit in hex xx/xx so move units to intervene.
They no exactly where to go, don't get lost on the way & then don't have to scout around to locate it, even if they are in heavy jungle etc we can take the best path.
They are then overwhelmed by superior numbers (hopefully) so the whole process is over quickly.

Real life especially WWII with dodgy or no radios attacks could go very wrong. Night time especially units could turn up an hour or 2 late or even attack entirely the wrong place.
Whats with all those muzzle flashes on that hill, err guys I think that's the hill we are supposed to be attacking not this one!!!

At the start of WWII French tanks were largely superior to German ones but they used old school tactics & many tanks did not even have radios. They lost pretty quickly because they could not react to the situation they were busy following commands by flag & if they lost sight of the flag they were on their own.

Germans did not have the God view & response time you have but the difference between their command structure & the French meant the inferior tanks won the battle pretty sharpish.
Probably why military vehicles today the big push is on battlefield awareness & vision.
See them react & kill before they know what happened.

[ERISS]

Originally Posted by Imp

At the start of WWII French tanks were largely superior to German ones but they used old school tactics & many tanks did not even have radios. They lost pretty quickly because they could not react to the situation they were busy following commands by flag & if they lost sight of the flag they were on their own.
Germans did not have the God view & response time you have but the difference between their command structure & the French meant the inferior tanks won the battle pretty sharpish.
Probably why military vehicles today the big push is on battlefield awareness & vision.
See them, react & kill, before they know what happened.

Yeay French side were slightly more numerous and had the best blitzkrieg tanks of the world lol (and maybe the best heavy too), while germans had armored-car-like tanks (like Italians but nobody moked germans as they won with a so critical victory).
Germans could well train their army in Spain then Poland, learning too the tactical aerial support, where the radios were very important for communications between bomber and tanks.
There was many other reasons to this huge surprise french defeat, like Pétain and Gamelin removing the 7thArmy defending the Ardennes for it was easy to defend (so surely the germans would not try to pass here).
In general the french command was so conceited, still full of dinasties of nobles (see their names).

[Wiking]

If I could mention, one thing not to mess with is probably Armor toughness. I remember maxing this out ages ago before I learned how to play the game properly and it makes the armor stats for the various vehicles fairly useless since they won't shift to show the change. So I had Panzer 38's standing up to T-34 fire fairly easily. Best to leave that as it is. Everything else is pretty fair game though.

[qwetry]

Thanks for explanation, now it's clear to me, I misunderstood that manual part into open post by no considering effects of "all controlling "Player God" figure".

so default setting percentages are the most realistic?

[Wiking]

They're a fairly reasonable approximation, as interpreted by the creators. However, if you feel they could stand an adjustment one way or another, you have the ability to do so to suit the experience you desire.

[Mobhack]

The default settings are, naturally, what we consider to be the more realistic.

Those who disagree can play around with the options to suit their particular view of "reality". If playing someone PBEM, then you may have to come to some sort of agreement should any side wish to use other settings than the default.