Mod: Cinggis Qayan, Wrath of the Khans 3 eras -- Update 6

[kennydicke]

Recent updates:
0.3b - more balancing
--a few more stat balances

0.3a - balancing
--completely revamped all recruitables stats and equipment; mostly a nerf
--revamped human heroes stats
--revamped newarmors; created newarmor 'leather scale hauberk'
--edited t'ien ch'i national spell 'wrath of the ancestors' to include MA & LA qayan

0.2e - fixes - thanks radio_star and mehrunes_dagon
--fixed 'summon burkhan', 'summon chotgor' and 'summon abaasy' spells
--fixed newweapon 'spring attack'
--increased 'manghit udagan' to mapmove 4
--removed extraneous 'manghit' recruit
--changed 'call of the mastodon' spell to a flat 3 effect summon for 2 gems
--reduced 'shudkher' unit's prot
--fixed genghis pretender domsummon by removing extraneous tags
--enable EA heroes 'khadny mangaa' and 'arvan tavan tolgoytoy atgaalzhin'
--increased pathlevel of almost all spells


EDIT:
EA: Erlik Qayan, Death & Fire
--Priests reanimate but can't preach, recruit demons and undead

MA: Cinggis Qayan, Wrath of the Khans
--About the same as they were before, a few less mages though

LA: Tengri Qayan, Spirits of the Sky
--Similar to Cinggis but with even less mages, dyingdom, SC national pretender

Disclaimer: I do not claim that any of the sprites used were hand drawn. The non-vanilla sprites are all edits of graphics found online. The sprites are free for anyone to borrow and use for themselves. I thank Globu for his help.

I made a little showcase for the non-vanilla sprites. I marked Globu's wonderful sprites with a 'G', left of their head. Many of my sprites are not finished, but usable - they do have action sprites, though.




The eras appear to work together fine; however, I don't know how to do an all era game, so I may be in error.

Many mages have an inherent magicboost to one or more paths. So if they have get a random pick, they will often have 2-3 skill in the path they get. Maybe I should add a more specific, less fluffy way of saying this to each mages' description?

Future updates:
Rename 'Genghis' pretender to 'Celestial' or 'Heavenly' Khan. As suggested by Globu.
More appropriate descriptions; this will require a visit to the library.
Sprites.
Edits to gold cost and starting paths/randoms pending feedback.
New summons: Pegasus

All spells: Do you feel the paths and schools are appropriate?
end EDIT


Cinggis Qayan is pronounced ching | giss hahn (rhymes with thing | hiss khan). Although a common rendering from antiquity is Genghis Khan. However, I encourage people to take a personal approach and say it however they like.

Many of the sprites are vanilla as I am not an artist. I plan on eventually making my own, or possibly convincing my youngest brother to do it. (He is an artist, but he hates dominions.) Although I would have no trouble accepting submissions.
Edit: Globu has kindly offered to make some sprites. Hopefully this will lend a little more personality to the Qayan!

Feel free to offer any suggestions, comments, criticism, or anything else you wish to say. Please be certain to let me know of errors or conflicts in my code, I'll be happy to fix it. And if you have any modding experience, don't hesitate to review my .dm for anything that looks off. (I tend to be thorough and at times redundant, so it may be on purpose.)

I have used this mod with and had no problems with the following other mods: CBM 1.6, CPCS, Deep Dagon, FW thugs n summons 1.00, Greater Gods, Worthy Heroes 1.8, Streamers & Standards (Llama's version), Nova Deus II, Magic Site Mod and Throne of Heroes.

Also works with the warhammer nation mods: AI Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Undivided, Tomb Kings, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, Skaven, Wood Elves

I would like to thank the creators of all of these excellent mods! Especially my favorites: CBM, CPCS, Chaos, Dwarfs, Lizardmen and Skaven. I would make a warhammer nation if I was an artist.

Clearly not with *ALL* of the mods enabled, this would lead to problems with too many spells.

I've edited some of those mods on my own machine to work together better, hopefully my own edits aren't actually allowing my mod to work without errors. I tried to be thorough and examine the IDs used by those other mods.

Changelog:
0.2d - adjustments and sprites
--created new units 'khadny mangaa', 'arvan tavan tolgoytoy atgaalzhin', and 'khangard'; enabled 'khangard' as a LA hero
--created newweapons for natural attacks of 'khadny mangaa' and 'arvan tavan tolgoytoy atgaalzhin'
--created sprites for 'khadny mangaa', 'saman of erlik', 'kut', and 'burkhan'
--reworked pretender 'erlik' sprite, including a more human scale, still can't get that dang arm right though
--scaled down and cleaned up 'almas' sprite
--changed EA multiheroes
--added 1 fire gem to EA startsite 'the ceremonies of ot', added 1 air gem to EA startsite 'erlik's death-hall', removed astral pearl from EA startsite 'erlik's death-hall'
--revamped stats of 'sholmos' and 'shudkher' units, bringing them more in line with yomi 'onis' and lanka 'rakshasas'
--edited sauromatia national spell 'call ancestor' to include MA & LA qayan
--restricted 'kharash' spell to MA qayan
--edited 'jadaci of storms' from a lower level copy of 'storm', to a higher level copy of 'thunder strike' with 5 effects
--adjusted pd numbers of all eras
--other minor changes

0.2c - fixes and balancing - thanks radio_star
--created new EA summons 'abaasy' and 'chotgor', created associated summon spells
--new sprites using skySpirit sprite as template: 'abaasy' and 'chotgor' summons, 'tenger' multihero, 'tengri' pretender
--reduced MA starting gems
--changes to 'genghis' pretender: gave magicboost 1 to encourage taking magic paths, gave onebattlspell 'divine blessing', changed domsummon to 'kheshig' only, removed makemonster
--removed fear from 'geser' hero, increased awe to 3
--changed 'summon death worms' spell to blood school
--renamed 'yeti' to 'almas', revamped description
--changes to 'shudkher' commander: reduced fear to 3, reduced magicboost of blood path to 1, enabled 'sholmos' sprite, reduced randoms by 10%
--changes to 'summon sholmoses' spell: less effects, higher slave cost, higher research level
--fixed 'kharash' spell description
--changes to EA PD: added 'qam of erlik' commander, added 'kut' troops
--removed domkill and domunrest from EA
--fixed 'erlik' pretenders' domsummons, other changes
--numerous changes to 'endur' summon, 'tenger' multihero, and 'tengri' pretender
--other minor changes

0.2b - more accurate terms, some sprites, a showcase
--created sprites for sholmos, servant of odqan, and servant of tengri
--adjusted some stats and magic paths
--created #newweapon "silver cup of manzan"
--exchanged sholmos 'claws' with 'stone club'; added 'furs'
--exchanged yeti 'claws' x2 with 'fist' x2 and 'head butt'
--gave servant of odqan 'throw flames'
--fixed 'summon death worms' spell, then changed path(s) to blood only
--cleaned up sholmos sprite
--created 'qayan tiger' unit to represent Siberian tiger; created related summon
--created 'mastodon' unit, and pointed 'call of the mastodon' spell to it
--added Globu's mammoth sprite for mastodon
--raised gem cost of 'chosen of tengri' by 5
--cleaned up yeti sprite, and scaled action sprite better
--raised enc on most mounted troops by 1-2, lowered AP of all mounted troops by 1-3
--changed name of 'servant of erlik' to 'priest of erlik'
--created new units 'servant of erlik' and 'kut'; added to ea qayan recruitment queue
--changed name of 'qayan honor guard' to 'kheshig'
--changed name of 'qayan warrior woman' to 'khatun'
--changed name of 'qayan scout' to 'noyan'
--changed name of 'qayan tarkhan' to 'tarkhan'
--changed name of all qayan 'vessels' to 'manghits' (mangudais)
--changed name of 'servant of tengri' to 'qam of tengri'
--changed name of 'servant of odqan' to 'qam of odqan'
--changed name of 'servant of erlik' to 'qam of erlik'
--changed name of 'servant of manzan gurme toodei' to 'udagan of manzan'; then changed unit to female
--changed name of 'servant of bay-ulgen' to 'qam of bay-ulgen'
--changed name of 'servant of eje' to 'udagan of eje'
--changed name of 'servant of ot' to 'qam of ot'
--changed name of 'priestess of tengri' to 'iduan of tengri'
--changed name of 'vessel priestess' to 'manghit udagan'
--changed name of 'priest of bay-ulen' to 'saman of bay-ulgen'
--changed name of 'priest of erlik' to 'saman of erlik'
--changed name of 'vessel high priestess' to 'manghit iduan'
--changed name of 'sky spirit' to 'endur'
--changed name of 'chosen of tengri' to 'burkhan'
--changed name of 'elder sky spirit' to 'tenger'
--gave all human units 30 cold res, gave all non-human units 50 cold res
--created three new national spells 'jadaci of snows', 'jadaci of rains', and 'jadaci of storms'; they are altered copies of 'wolven winter', 'rain', and 'storm', respectively
--created new national spell 'kharash', battlesummons 25 militia
--changed 'summon yeti' spell to air and nature paths
--changed name of 'awaken bay-ulgen' spell to 'awaken lord of the upper spirits'
--changed name of 'qayan militia' to 'unaghan borghul'
--changed name of 'qayan infantry' to 'nokud infantry'
--changed name of 'qayan bowman' to 'nokud bowman'
--changed name of 'qayan vanguard' to 'nokud vanguard'
--changed name of 'qayan light cavalry' to 'nokud light cavalry'
--changed name of 'qayan cavalry' to 'nokud cavalry'
--changed name of 'qayan cavalry woman' to 'nokud cavalry woman'
--changed name of 'qayan heavy cavalry' to 'bahadur'
--added A path mask to erlik shaman randoms

0.2a - sprites!
--fixed some major problems by combining three ages into one mod
--changed some minor things
--created two new spells "Call to Mother Earth" and "Awaken Bay-Ulgen"
--created sprites for 'sky spirit'
--added unfinished sprite for erlik's human form
--removed sky spirit from recruitment queue, this was a testing measure only
--created sprites for 'Olgoi-khorkoi' - Mongolian death worms
--fixed gcost of sholmos and shudker demons
--created sprites for 'yeti'
--created pd only militia archer women
--added Globu's wonderful sprites! - priestess of tengri, genghis pretender, khan chassis heroes, servant of manzan, qayan militia and qayan archer

0.1d - Ch-ch-ch-changes!
--fixed startsite errors, and edited startsites of erlik qayan - thanks humakty
--changed erlik pretender hardpaths from 1S 2D to 3D
--cleaned up some code; there is still slop though
--reenabled summon yeti spell
--edited hardpaths/randoms and descriptions of servant of ot, servant of erlik and servant of odqan
--edited startsites of cinggis qayan
--edited hardpaths/randoms and descriptions of priest of bay-ulgen, priestess of tengri, servant of eje, servant of bay-ulgen and servant of manzan
--raised gcost of priestess of tengri to 280gp

0.1c - Another try! Thanks everyone!
--reduced gcost of archer from 40 to 15gp
--created two more eras
--some other minor changes
--fixed Lasso and Qayan Heavy Lance using 'harpooning' instead of 'entanglement,' as suggested by SlipperyJim. Entanglement only works on 'magic' weapons.

0.1b - Couldn't of done it without you guys!
--edited some descriptions, especially pretender entries; removed Earth historical references
--edited historical-based heroes maxage to match age at death
--cleaned up some code; redundant, slop, and unecessary code
--raised all #prec values of 10 to 12
--gave all units #ambidextrous 2; thanks Trumanator
--edited #fear values for Khan heroes; edite #itemslots for Khan heroes
--raised cost of , "Qayan Cavalry", "Qayan Cavalry Woman", "Qayan Heavy Cavalry", "Qayan Chariot", "Qayan Vessel", "Qayan Honor Guard", "Qayan Captain", and "Qayan Warrior Woman" each by 5gp
--distributed the "Medium Lance" to most cavalry; the rest got "Qayan Heavy Lance"
--changed instances of '338 -- heavy hoof' to '56 -- hoof', smaller, faster horses with lighter shoes for faster travel pretty much precludes a heavy hoof
--changed many #custommagic values
--reduced misc slots of most heroes
--changed all instances of #mr20 to #mr18
--removed aoe effect from "Death Worm Acid" and "Death Worm Shock"; increased range of both from 5 to 10
--replaced "Qayan Javelin Hail" with "Javelin Hail"
--replaced "Qayan Magic Sabre" with "Magic Sabre"
--repalced "Qayan Sabre" with "Sabre"
--swapped IDs of "Sabre" and "Magic Sabre"
--replaced "Qayan Greatbow" with "Longbow"
--replaced "Qayan Horsebow" with "Composite Bow"
--created #newweapon "Medium Lance"
--created #newweapon "Qayan Heavy Lance"
--created #newweapon "Lasso"
--replaced "Qayan Light Scale" with "Qayan Scale"
--replaced "Qayan Heavy Scale" with "Qayan Lamellar"
--replaced "Qayan Lamellar" with "Lamellar Armor"
--replaced "Qayan Scale" with "Leather Scale"
--edited stats for "Lamellar Armor" and "Leather Scale"; swapped IDs
--raised cost of "Qayan Infantry" from 11 to 13gp
--raised cost of "Qayan Bowman"; reduced natural prot of "Qayan Bowman" from 2 to 0, this was an error
--raised cost of "Qayan Vanguard" from 20 to 30gp
--raised cost of "Qayan Light Cavalry" from 25 to 35
--raised "Javelin Launcher" #enc from 0 to 5; removed ; reduced cost from 150 to 70gp.
--raised #ambidexterous value of "Qayan Vessel" from 2 to 3; raised MR from 11 to 12; changed #armor from "Lamellar Armor" to "Leather Scale"
--raised #ambidexterous value of "Qayan Honor Guard" from 2 to 3
--raised cost of "Qayan Scout" from 20 to 30gp
--changed name of "Qayan Captain" to "Qayan Tarkhan"
--raised cost of "Servant of Tengri" from 60 to 75gp
--raised cost of "Servant of Bay-Ulgen" from 180 to 210gp
--reduced researchbonus of "Servant of Gazar Eej" from 0 to -2
--increased researchbonus of "Priest of Bay-Ulgen"
--gave Geser hero #awe 0
--reduced "Genghis" pretender misc slots from 4 to 2; reduced #fear value from 5 to 3; reduced gcost from 50 to 25; raised pathcost from 50 to 75
--reduced "Bay-Ulgen" pretender #hp from 300 to 150, disabled #domsummon20 "Ivy King", reduced #awe from 5 to 1; reduced misc slots from 4 to 2; reduced startdom from 4 to 1
--increased the researchbonus of "Bay-Ulgen" and removed researchbonus from "Tengri"; values were juxtaposed
--reduced "Tengri" pretender hp from 50 to 20, reduced precision from 8 to 4; reduced gcost from 275 to 200; reduced startdom from 4 to 1; reduced stormpower from 10 to 6; reduced #awe value from 5 to 1; reduced misc slots from 4 to 1; disabled #magicboost tag
--raised gcost of "Gazar Eej" pretender from 75 to 100, changed name to "Eje"; reduced #awe value from 5 to 2; reduced misc slots from 4 to 2
--changed "Erlik" pretender #onebattlespell from "Undead Mastery" to "Darkness"; raised gcost from 125 to 175; reduced startdom from 3 to 1; reduced death hardpaths from 3 to 2; removed blood hardpath; reduced misc slots from 4 to 2; made same edits to bear form
--corrected #fear value of "Olgoi-Khorkhoi"
--reduced #incunrest of "Sholmos" from 5 to 1
--reduced #nreff of "Call of the Mastodon" from 1005 to 1002
--raised cost of "Summon Death Worms" from 4 to 10 gems
--made Vessel Priestess recruit anywhere
--reduced starting infantry to 10
--reduced bowmen in PD from 30 to 15

[Burnsaber]

Sounds intresting. I'll take a look once I have the time.

[Sombre]

What a first post! I like your attitude.

Like Burn, I will try this when I have time. To answer a couple of questions:

No there isn't a clean way to make mod weapons work with flaming arrows.

Onebattlespell can effectively only point to vanilla spells, so if you had it pointing to a modded spell, that wouldn't work (there is a workaround which is commonly used, I won't go into it unless anyone wants me to). It does work fine with spells that have a fatiguecost of 100+ though, so not to do with gems.

[Alpine Joe]

Took a brief look at this mod....it looks very interesting, very well done, and extremely fun to play.

balance wise it probably needs to be toned down a bit. I will post some suggestions later.

Great work!

[Frozen Lama]

the question about silk clothing could be fixed by giving them armor with air shield

[kennydicke]

Sounds intresting. I'll take a look once I have the time.

Thanks! I had hoped somebody would find it interesting, even though it's not overly original. No rush on trying them out, I'd prefer people to have fun with my creation and not look at it as work (like my poor bro).

What a first post! I like your attitude.

Thanks to you too! I like to be open, positive and honest; a result of working closely with men of faith.

Like Burn, I will try this when I have time.

And like Burnsaber, I encourage you to try them at your own leisure, all the better for the best feedback!

No there isn't a clean way to make mod weapons work with flaming arrows.

Unfortunate, but not unexpected; as of my personal notes in the .dm, I may change their bows to vanilla weapons. (Which do no justice to the Hunnic recurve bow; the Mongolian version of which, at 166 pounds of draw weight, was the most powerful hand-held weapon until the invention of the breech-load rifle.) It seems that an archer nation should have access to Flaming Arrows. Perhaps their is a way to make a national spell that would perform a similar function? Or maybe I can make another bow with flaming arrows and give it to a specific unit. (Maybe one of the sacreds, or the stealthy cavalry?)

Onebattlespell can effectively only point to vanilla spells, so if you had it pointing to a modded spell, that wouldn't work (there is a workaround which is commonly used, I won't go into it unless anyone wants me to). It does work fine with spells that have a fatiguecost of 100+ though, so not to do with gems.

I noticed in the modding.pdf that onebattlespell can only be used on vanilla spells. I guess maybe you could edit a spell to get around this? I would be very interested in seeing how you accomplish this, if only to slake my thirst for knowledge. The spells were not being cast as normal, I hadn't tried actually giving the unit a gem to cast it with though. My brother is supposed to do that kind of thing, but he's busy reading his new RPG books.

the question about silk clothing could be fixed by giving them armor with air shield

Thank you! Can air shield be added to non-magical armor, I didn't notice it, if so. I suppose I could make a new magic item called Silk Robes or somesuch.

Took a brief look at this mod....it looks very interesting, very well done, and extremely fun to play

Once again, thanks! If it didn't have vanilla sprites, I would consider it done well enough. I also had fun playing as them, but those pesky dwarves and slann keep calling my name! (Oh, I long for simpler times. Machaka, Lanka and Ermor, how I miss you!)

balance wise it probably needs to be toned down a bit. I will post some suggestions later.

Yeah, I have the same feeling. Toned down a LOT, morelike. I look forward to suggestions from more of you seasoned players!

Great work!

Thank you much! Hopefully others will agree.

[Globu]

Looks really good. I've been practicing a bit, so I could contribute a few sprites if it'd help. (I'm no freehand artist -- I cheat, massaging reduced images of miniatures into sprites.) Attached is an example -- you can use it for a female priestess/mage, if you like and it fits the theme. This one still needs a bit more tidying up (and a bit more action -- tough to mess with those legs) in the attack sprite, but I like her. I use her for the Great Enchantress pretender, since I don't so much like the existing sprites for her (both the base one and the one in the Nova Deus mod).

I'll take a closer look at it. For what I have seen, two things that hit me straight off the bat:

1) Those bows -- should they overpower Hinnom's giant-equipped Great Bows? They also put to shame the Longbow of Accuracy, what with the AP.

2) Those randoms -- nice. I love the wild randomness. Were you intending that the mages without 100% magic skill in any one pick should be recruitable without labs?

3) Oh, and why not a third -- those pretenders: nice touch with the addition of four thematic pretenders!

[Alpine Joe]

Preliminary balance suggestions:

troops:
Be careful with those greatbows. I don't really have a precise suggestion on their balance.
Qayan infantry are actually pretty good for what you pay. Might not be thematic
Vanguards are wierd right now. 3 attacks per round, one at 6 and another at 4? Does this mean they can ever hit with the light lance charge? I don't know, but I'd suggest taking another look at their weapons. If you are committed to stealth that is fine, but raise the cost to 25 at least if you keep the stealth. Perhaps take off the light lance completely?
Same issue with light cavalry
regular cavalry seems alright, as do mounted women and heavy cavalry....
Honor guard would be okay if they were cap only....otherwise I fear the nation will be dominated by a bless.
Vessels are pretty balanced. Perhaps they should be the only cavalry with stealth?

Summons:

Death worms: too cheap....i would make it one effect for 4 gems instead.....death worms seem pretty awesome. That way with N2 you can get two for 4 still.....3 for 4 is too cheap.
Yetis: i like this summon...cost feels right for a small raiding troop
Sky Spirits: Strong, but a major focus so keep as is
Call of the Mastodon: hmm...feels a little too good...one N2 mage with 5 gems can summon up a lot of mammaths.....then again, N gems are competing with death worms.
Chosen of Tengri: The biggy....immortality makes this summon way way way too cheap. I would say 50A or 45A is probably a more reasonable price....summoning one of these guys should be a huge investment.




Mages:
I like the randomness theme, but....costs need to go up, and research down.

Servant of Tengri: raise cost to 70 or 75
Odqan: fine as is
Servant of Elrik: fine as is
Servant of Bay-ulgen: probably lower research by one, or raise cost to 200
Manzane-Gurme-Toodei: fine as is
Gazar Ej: lower research by one...otherwise these are excellent researchers AND battlemages....
Servant of Ot: fine as is
Priestess of Tengri: raise cost to 250-270....too cheap for a mage with the chance to get 4A or 4S, even though they are cap only humans with no special qualities....
Vessel Priestess: fine as is....niche unit
Priest of Bay-Ulgen: seems too expensive...I would always get a priestess of Tungri instead.



I'll play around with it a bit more.....let you know if anything else seems off. I would really like to play this nation in MP.....I will keep an eye out for a mod nation game.

Once again....great job with the mod!

[kennydicke]

Globu
I like the sprite, too bad she's blonde. Which is generally never a prob in real life but not a trait in the Altaic tribes. Although supposedly red hair was a recessive trait; one shared by their Scythian cousins, a fact that proponent's of 'Irish descent from Scythians' like to swear by.
Although I really could find a use for it, makes me think of a game I used to play called Ogre Battle. I'm thinking maybe the priestess of tengri, but we'll wait and see.

1) Those bows -- should they overpower Hinnom's giant-equipped Great Bows? They also put to shame the Longbow of Accuracy, what with the AP.

I thought they were less powerful than the Gileadite bows, but I wasn't taking armor-piercing or stats into account. The larger bows that Mongolian foot units used *would* be a "Longbow of Accuracy" by middle-age earth standards. They were stronger, more accurate and had a better 'kill' range than the English longbow (long considered the epitome of bow technology, and should be the basis for the greatbow). I was trying to combine historical accuracy with the dominions universe, but I will edit whatever seems unbalanced to you vets. Maybe drop a few damage points?

2) Those randoms -- nice. I love the wild randomness. Were you intending that the mages without 100% magic skill in any one pick should be recruitable without labs?

I liked the random theme I started to develop early on, and felt it somehow fit with the nomadic nature of the Mongol tribes. About two seconds after I read that post, I realized the potential for money-saving that no hard paths creates. Although, thinking on it, I kind of like the idea of a nation where a Temple *is* a Lab. (Possibly not fitting for dominions?) If their current loadout is reason for concern, however, I will add one hard path to all but one or two of them.

3) Oh, and why not a third -- those pretenders: nice touch with the addition of four thematic pretenders!

I created five, did only four show? Or do you feel one is unthematic? (If so, I will delete the offending cur!) Or, mayhap you were alluding to one being an absolute SC, one being immobile, one a shape-changing mage, one being a titan, one being human, or some other variation?


Thanks much for your post, some food for my brain to munch. Seriously, I appreciate the input. Your handle is familiar, methinks, have you created a mod or a map? Maybe I just read a post somewhere.

Aufwiedersehen.

[Globu]

Originally Posted by kennydicke

Globu
I like the sprite, too bad she's blonde. Which is generally never a prob in real life but not a trait in the Altaic tribes. [ . . . ]

If that's the only thing, and it's otherwise usable, that's quite easy to change. Let me know if it is, and I can switch hair (and clothing) color schemes. Can also change the staff and other stuff like that. No prob either way.

EDIT: Oh! I just looked again. It's not so clear, but that's not hair -- it's a headdress. (For the source image, look up Brigade Models's Arianrod of the Obsidian Spear from the Celtos range of miniatures. Here's one image, though I used another one as the source image.)

1) Those bows -- should they overpower Hinnom's giant-equipped Great Bows? They also put to shame the Longbow of Accuracy, what with the AP.

I thought they were less powerful than the Gileadite bows, but I wasn't taking armor-piercing or stats into account. The larger bows that Mongolian foot units used *would* be a "Longbow of Accuracy" by middle-age earth standards. They were stronger, more accurate and had a better 'kill' range than the English longbow (long considered the epitome of bow technology, and should be the basis for the greatbow). I was trying to combine historical accuracy with the dominions universe, but I will edit whatever seems unbalanced to you vets. Maybe drop a few damage points?[/quote]

I had no idea about the Mongolian bows -- that's pretty amazing.

I was thinking actually about EA Hinnom's Great Bows (range 45, dmg 15 flat) rather than the Gileadite Bows (range 50, dmg 17 flat). Given that it's pretty difficult for size-2 units to top size-4 giants holding enormous bows, I think placing it somewhere inbetween the Long Bow (range 40, dmg 13 flat) and the Great Bow and giving it a precision bonus would still make it incredibly impressive, without impinging on the special/magical nature of the Longbow of Accuracy.

By the way, I claim no special knowledge here (no vet or anything -- I play SP only as well), so it's just my $0.02 grain of salt. And, of course, I'm assuming there are no size-2 units in the game that use Great Bows -- I don't recall ever seeing them, but of course could be dead-wrong.

I liked the random theme I started to develop early on, and felt it somehow fit with the nomadic nature of the Mongol tribes. About two seconds after I read that post, I realized the potential for money-saving that no hard paths creates. Although, thinking on it, I kind of like the idea of a nation where a Temple *is* a Lab. (Possibly not fitting for dominions?) If their current loadout is reason for concern, however, I will add one hard path to all but one or two of them.

Yeah, the randoms theme is definitely a nice one. As far as I've seen, the no-hard-paths thing isn't necessarily bad in se, and some nations, like Sauromatia, have such lablessly-recruitable mages, but, if you do do it, my (again, non-expert) understanding is that it should be treated and weighed as a national advantage. My thought: go with it! Just balance for it, as good players will use it to save 500 gold on labs for some forts.

I created five, did only four show? [ . . . ]

Nah, I'm just unobservant. I missed the fifth! Will have to look at it again.

Thanks much for your post, some food for my brain to munch. Seriously, I appreciate the input. Your handle is familiar, methinks, have you created a mod or a map? Maybe I just read a post somewhere.

Glad to help any way I can. Yes, my one contribution is the corrected, hand-named version of the Glory SP map.

Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention -- I wouldn't worry one bit about the nation being thematically covered by T'ien Chi and Sauromatia. Think about it this way: how many nations did the devs make for Scandinavia? Variety and flavor is always nice.

Cheers!