Hinnom (EA, no mods): Ba'al's or Melqarts

[3V4JKZ2]

I'm having slight trouble telling which I should use for Thugging. I have no bless worth revealing (scales build).

Baal's: ..................................Melqarts
500 gp....................................450 gp (-50)
4 resources...............................124 resources (+120)
66 hp.....................................69 hp (+3)
8 protection..............................18 protection (+10)
15 morale.................................15 morale
18 magic resist...........................18 magic resist
2 encumberance............................2/5/8 encumberance (+3/+6)
0 fatigue.................................0 fatigue
22 strength...............................24 strength (+2)
14 attack.................................15 attack (+1)
11 defence................................18 defence (+7)
12 precision..............................12
3/16 move.................................3/15 move (-1)

Blood 2, Holy 1, +3F/E/S (rare crosspaths never get used for thugging anyways)
Fear 0, Fire Resist 75, Natural Gore attack, research is higher than Melqarts

Blood 3, Holy 1, +2F/E/S, Fear 0, Fire Resist 75, natural gore attack.

Which do I use for Thugging? Melqarts have higher stats; but my Astral ones need helms to teleport; and Melqarts have substantially higher melee encumberance and casting emcumberance, which is usually a pretty big issue, right?

Help and opinions appreciated.

[tratorix]

Ba'als have lower encumbrance because they don't have any armour. If you're thugging a Ba'al you'll probably want some armour on them, which usually adds encumbrance. This is why a high earth bless is common for giant nations, as it adds both prot and much needed reinvig. I'd go with Ba'als in your situation as without a bless keeping Melquarts from fatiguing out will be a big problem. Earth ones are probably your best bet, as they can cast summon earthpower to help with fatigue and then invulnerability or other protection enhancing spells to help their survivability without needing armour. Firebrand + Shield of gleaming gold with a pair of Boots of the Messenger is what I would go with, but I'm often fairly simplistic when it comes to gearing thugs. Though I've never actually used Hinnom outside of single player, so keep that in mind before you take my advice.

[Excist]

In my first game as Hinnom, but I've been on the receiving end a few times.

My recommendation is with lvl 2-4 construction thug out the Melquarts since you can leave most of the equip the same and just add in some reinvig/regen/MR and with 2 attacks they'll clear most of a tile/round which makes thugging quite cost effective.

After more spells are researched then Ba'als can be really strong earth/astral/fire casters and with the right equipment/spells they can be more SC quality than Thug quality.

Early on, it'd be too expensive to pay the extra gold for the Ba'al and then forge an item for every slot to deck them out.

[Executor]

I second Excists suggestion. You only need a few items on Melqart.

As for spell casting enc, adding any items with enc will increase the spell casting enc by double. So if you're planning on using any gear it doesn't matter which one you pick.

Overall Melqart has slightly better stats but they are mostly the same. Though Melqarts items save you a lot of forging early on. With the right magic pick and a few low level items Melqart is already a SC not a thug.

[Excist]

Well, Ba'als are probably the only non-Pretender that can teleport in and mentally dominate an entire army with the right equipment.

Here's a fun recipe I just thought of:
Teleport
1st Ba'al: rune smasher, robe of magi, astral cap, communion master matrix, eye of the void

Cast hellpower, master enslave

3 supporting Ba'als cast power of the spheres (another one with a communion master matrix) & communion slave *2 and all equipped with the cheaper +S equipment.

The master Ba'als should be at S9 after the first round and the slaves at S5 or 6 depending on where they are in the turn order

The 2nd master Ba'al can cast reinvigorate and then both masters spam the single target mind controls to pick up any high quality targets and then the communion can cast returning to pop back to the capital hopefully before any horrors show up.

This should effectively take control of or destroy most any army for a reasonable cost of 30 astral gems and a few slaves.

In vanilla, 30 clams will let you do that every turn.

[Shangrila00]

Baals are Hinnom's only source of nonblood crosspaths. I'm pretty sure Hinnom has the worst access to crosspaths of any nation in the game. Oh, you have thugs with native fear, a gold shield would really make them deadly...oh wait, have to recruit 40 Baals before getting one that can forge that.

[Excist]

Well, with Hinnoms wide magic diversity (all except water) I haven't had too much trouble finding Indy cross path mages (found 3 whispering woods and some other Indy cross path mages in the first year)

They have that caveman guy with fairly useless cross paths. Might be a possible target for empowering since it might open up multiple cross paths.

Other than that they also have their national heroes and lords of civilization which I think bring a few useful cross paths.

[Shardphoenix]

Well, Ba'als are probably the only non-Pretender that can teleport in and mentally dominate an entire army with the right equipment.

Marverni druids. You don`t even need a communion there, just two druids (one of them with Banner of the Northern Star). One (with cap, coin, crystal shield, Void Eye and Rune Smasher) casts Master Enslave, another (with banner) casts Ritual of Returning. If you like, you may even add Wraith crown on second one for a chaff screen and some armor on both for extra durability/mr.

[Excist]

Dont you need S8 to cast master enslave?

How do you get the druids up there ?

[Shardphoenix]

s4 druid+cap+coin gets to s6. Shield gives him another +1 and banner gives +1S to every S mage on the battlefield.