Horsies and motorcycles

[Christocipher]

Hi.
I really really really like how the bicycles work in the game. When you get off they cant move around on their own. Can we have the same for Motorcycles and Horses? I mean like when the cavalry is dismounted the guy holding the horses seems to be able to ride them all around the place? Same with Motorcycles how does just a few guys ride all the motorcyclea around? But theres more. they can even fire at the same time as riding multiple horses and motorcycles. I also noticed something that seems to be missing in the armies. Most cavalry had a 6 horse limber for field guns that was just as fast as cavalry getting around. So not a wagon or pack horses like now that cant keep up.

[lansoar]

besides game limitations, there's also some doctrine issues here i believe. Granted, not so much for cavalry vs. bicyclists/motorcycle groups.

I love the early war scenarios with lots of German motorcyclists. They are versatile and used in the right way, they can be critical. Even if the code allowed for dismounting motor teams......its not really accurate is it? Their job was recon, communications etc. not the same as motorized troops. The AI unfortunately treats them as the latter. But a human will treat them tactically.

As for Calvary. The devs can comment but i believe its a code limitation. If you dismount, odds are the horses will be driven away or killed in a firefight of intensity. Also from a game code perspective, the cavalry unit is a single entity. They can't dismount as such, whereas an INF unit can be loaded onto a transport or half track and then dismounted. separate units and each can share a different fate.

[troopie]

Horses can run away on their on. The British discovered in the 2nd Boer war if they dropped an artillery round or fired a couple of Maxim guns at the horses, they would run away.

troopie

[Suhiir]

Generally 1 man in will hold the horses.
With horses it's very easy to tie the bridle of one to the saddle of another then have one rider lead a conga line of horses pretty much anywhere they want (barring the horses spooking).

[DRG]

You misunderstand how the unit is set up

The German motorcycles units are single Icons that represent 3x beiwagenkrad (sidecar bike)

The collective total of passengers carried by those three beiwagenkrad ( Kradschutzen) is 6 men = 2 per bike

When you dismount that unit it contains 6 Kradschutzen so those 6 men represent the one in the sidecar and the one behind the driver X 3

The crew/drivers of the beiwagenkrad do not dismount which means the three beiwagenkrad that make up that single unit have three drivers that are free to move their beiwagenkrad while their passengers engage in combat

This is why when you click on a beiwagenkrad that has been dismounted by the Kradschutzen passengers it shows 3 crew...... those are the drivers of the three bikes and not the passengers

The horses have been well explained by others

Therefore nothing will change

Glad you like the Bike set up , it is much better than the original kludge

[Christocipher]

Oh thanks for all that information I stand corrected. The motorcycles is a very clever solution all credit to whoever thought that up. I guess if a designer wanted to then, for motorcycles they could make the motorcycles the same as the bicycles that is immobile but they could then have a stationary abandoned three motorcycles and a 9 man squad instead of 6. Im not suggesting to change what is there but to add an alternative formation to choose from maybe.

So I am still learning learning learning, I see now it is the same for the cavalry the dismounted cavalry is 6 men leaving 4 men to ride the horses about and shoot guns etc. so I am sorry to have made my smart mouth comments about moving and firing excetera.

Anyway I understand now so very good and doesnt need changing but maybe there could be an additional version of the MC and Cavalry to choose from where the MCs and Horses do become immobile like the bicycles and then there is a 9 man MC squad or a 10 man cavalry squad to fight with instead of 6? I think this is what dragoons always were? mounted infantry where the horses were really transport not something to be fought from on top off like in the cavalry.

Also would it be possible to add a 6 horse limber to carry the cavalry field guns? I think these were pretty common and they had the 6 horses so the guns could keep up with the cavalry so speed would be 12 hexes instead of the wagon or pack horses 6.

[Mobhack]

looking at the UK OOB, the current limber costs you 10 points and the Morris 15cwt truck is also 10 points - who would actually buy a limber when there is a truck for the same cost?

Therefore unless a scenario designer picks it for his purposes (and he can edit the speed if he wants in the designer) - nobody sane will be buying them. Same gos for the suggested extra cavalry types, frankly.

I have really never used cavalry bar a few sacrificial scouts on the attack specifically to draw AI machinegun fires, and the only motorcycles I ever really use are non-dismount scouts to nick an objective (or die trying!). The dismounting motorcycles simply charge off into the blue and get themselves massacred when the enemy spots them a mile off, and the tiny little crews have no staying power.

[Suhiir]

I find cavalry (well, small scout units with mounts) VERY useful in rough terrain you really don't want to send vehicles into; forests,swamps, etc.

[Christocipher]

Hey Thanks guys, thats right the game does a great job of how horsies can navagate rough and swamps and such stuff which can be cool helpful. I know this is just something I found interesting to be added but if no one else wants it of course dont do it I dont know what other might want so I just suggest.

Myself I like to buy some historical units like how they really were and see if I can command them good or not on the battlefield. I dont care if I loose it is still fun for me I dont know if anyone else plays like me. All the cavalries had the field guns towed by a 12 hex speed 6 horse limber that could keep up with the horsies if I use a truck instead it has more trouble keeping up in the rough going, mud and swamp than the fast limber maybe?

I think the bicycle type immobile horsie and motorcycle transport can be very useful to do stuff like maybe go fast through a forest arrive on the other side out of the blue and unexpected and then deliver a much more stronger, because of the bigger dismounted sections, force to cause trouble with. So 9 men instead of 6 for the MCs and 10 instead of 8 for the horsies makes them more dangerous when they dismount at the end of their journey through the forest that the enemy thought would take too long to get through, so Surprise! Works good for the bastogne maps. And of course the bigger dismounted sqauds have more staying power which is what some players want.

I guess im wrong again but for the horsies I think the numbers dont add up, can someone check me? The Germans 623 riding cavalry called cavalry has 10 men in each squad but the 714 and 715 dismounted cavalry called dismounted cavalry has 8 men in the squad and 4 men in the cavalry mounts so thats a 12 man squad and the 452 cavalry mount that carries the 446 3 MG sections make for a 13 man squad. So shouldnt they all be the same size squads? I looked and lots of other armies cavalries have the same trickyness.

[Christocipher]

I forgot to say the other funny thing is that for the German unbritten cavalry with 4 in charge of the transport horses and 8 men dismounted Is that the 4 men must be in charge of 3 horses each. I find that they are really good at fighting even with the 2 extra horses they can still gallop at full speed, lay smoke and stuff just as good as when there is one man per horse. Having a choose of a stationary when dismounted cavalry group is more like they are just standing around holding the horses instead of fighting and if you tied them up to a tree or hobbled them then all 12 men can fight in the one dismounted squad. Hope this makes sense.