Max Forge Bonus

shovah · #1 October 31st, 2005, 11:48 AM

I was just messin about in a sp game when i wondered what the max forge bonus is (if there is any) i mean i doubt there is a 100% bonus but im not sure, consider this: ulmish master smith with hammer of the forge lord in a steel oven province with forge of the ancients cast. this would easily exceed the 100% mark (though i doubt its possible) but was just wondering what you guys think the max bonus is?

Alneyan · #2 October 31st, 2005, 11:56 AM

I recall something about the cap being at 90%, and high bonus do not directly stack (so -50% + -50% wouldn't bring you all the way to the cap). I don't recall how they stack exactly, though.

Wish · #3 October 31st, 2005, 12:57 PM

give a hammer of forge lord to a dwarven smith while the forge of the ancients is up.... that comes out to what, something like 90%

shovah · #4 October 31st, 2005, 01:10 PM

i just wasnt sure what the max was ,if only there was none. then i could get gems for forging items

Endoperez · #5 October 31st, 2005, 01:43 PM

The best possibility is to be able to forge items with one gem. Mind you, Robes of Invlunerability or Soul Contracts for one gem/slave are awfully powerful in themselves...

shovah · #6 October 31st, 2005, 02:46 PM

only problem is even with forge of the ancients you still usually need some empowerment to forge most things (in my current sp game i have a smith making me blood thorns and 2 slaves each (i used summons and my pretender to get slaves)

Chazar · #7 November 2nd, 2005, 11:22 AM

It certainly depends on the map size played on: With a medium sized map (less than ~16 provinces per participating nation) hoarding gem generating items should not be viable, as the resources should be rather required immediately to ward off the enemies.

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Furthermore, what are realistic forge bonuses achievable in reasonably sized games? Master Smiths? Nah, I would not want to play Ulm in MP unless the map is really small and you cannot rely on finding the steel oven, can you?

WraithLord · #8 November 2nd, 2005, 12:50 PM

I agree that hoarding depends on the map size.
Unfortunately for me it's most prominent in large maps, which happen to be my favorites both for SP and MP.

Hoarding can be done by most nations, I don't think it's only limited to Ulm. And for the long run it's worth it even with zero forge bonus.

My experience from MP is that saving water, fire and earth (blood) gems exclusively for hoarding pays off. Now I don't like this, but since it's so effective and everyone else is probably doing the same I don't have much choice.

This can be solved by house rules for limiting hoarding, I just think that enforcing those rules through the game would be much better.

Chazar · #9 November 2nd, 2005, 01:52 PM

The second paragraph was rather generally asking for the maximal forge bonus attainable in a real MP game...but I geuess it is an unsound question anyway...

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I still fail to understand why some people prefer huge maps (which, for me, means anything above 25 provinces per participating player)? Of course, it is a good thing that everyone plays as they like, but I am curious and just want to understand it: What is the idea behind choosing maps that are so large?
- If I prefer endgame magic, I can choose easy research...
- If I prefer endless magical supplies, I increase the magic site frequency...
- If I want abundance of resources, I use the 'rich world setting'...

So what's left? More room for long-term strategic maneuvers due to slow moving troops? No, because long-run games feature all those fast moving SCs or army-teleporting spells, making 1-province movers almost obsolete. So maybe the benefit lies in the distance between players, similar to what Atlantis (the hoarder per se), Ryleh and Oceania achieve: the safety to implement a long-term plan. Is this so? Do big maps simply allow peaceful buildups?

I mean, I do understand that people like it to build-up things. If one has a grand scheme then one also wants enough time & peace to implement it. Getting a good plan foiled by a fellow player is certainly one of the most unpleasant experiences, right? If I play Caelum, I try my best diplomatics to make sure that I am left alone as long as possible to boost my research, but usually my enemies wont allow this. But isnt this the point of a strategy game, to know when ones time is right to reach out and grasp the world? Isnt it the essence of strategy to anticipate and thwart each others plans?

Ironhawk · #10 November 2nd, 2005, 03:59 PM

I'm with Chazar on this one. Since the micromanagement of dom2 is already significant I am loathe to increase it with a large map. As for getting the chance to try large-scale long term strats - I only allow myself that luxury as a reward for having successfully survived The Winnowing (what I refer to the first one or two rounds of wars in a game) by politics or force.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that ppl shouldnt play on large maps. Just that I am right along with Chazar in my confusion over why people choose it.