Some thoughts on EA Pangaea with CBM

[Jarkko]

This is a very miniscule guide to give a couple insights on how I play CBM EA Pangaea. I love to play Pans, even though I rarely seem to actually get on a roll with them However, during the past week no less than three people have asked on my opions on Pangaea (they apparently thought I was doing ok in the Magellan game, but the truth is not as glorious, snif), so here I go then

I suggest you first take a look at the following guides:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=31535
Gandalf Parker describes well how to use sneaky armies. As Pan, you have to learn to know how to use the sneakers to maximum effect. Sneakers cause mayhem, cut off retreat and advance routes and are a general pain in the butt for the opponent. However, my usual strategy does not build on the sneakers as heavily as I believe Gandalf to use them, but sneakers *are* a very valuable asset in Pans arsenal and it is important to know how to use them.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37759
Dedas descibes how to set up a maenad factory. Personally I do not use that strat (anymore) as I always seem to have maenads coming out of my nose pretty soon anyway. However, when you need to patrol (to root out enemy scouts/assassins, to counter unrest from high tax or blood-hunt, etc) remember those harpies; they are in my opinion perhaps the best patrollers in the game (when you do not expect them to encounter anything worse than a hostile scout at most).

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42971
Baalz' guide to LA Pangaea describes how to use Carrion Woods. Due to the EA Pangaea producing lots of Nature gems and resource demand being lower in EA, CW may in fact be a better strategy in EA Pangae rather than LA Pangaea.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=696454
vfb made some damn EXCELLENT tests about dominion spread. I always felt blood sacrifice is much better than what everybody else felt. Now I know I was right, thanks to vfb As EA Pangaea, with cheap temples and access to blood sacrifice, you can make any hostile neighbour weep in agony when you get the blood sacrificing going, if the need arises.



The first thing you have to decide is will you go for Carrion Woods or not.

If you go for CW you are going to look for very tough first year (pray your pretender you won't get hit by a rush), but then should have an easier time, reaching the peak sometime turn 20 and having a field day for the next 20 turns, until the CW will get chain dispelled (in MP, that is) if you try to keep it up.

If you opt to not go for CW, then go for the bull. The bull will lead the way. You will love your bull.


Some thoughts on CW strategy.

There are several ways to go for the CW. The most important thing is to have a dormant pretender with N6 D5, so that he can immediatly cast CW when he awakes at around turn 10-12. CW needs 50 nature gems, and Pangaea gets 5 N gems per turn, so even if there are zero random events or you find zero nature sites during the first year, the CW *will* go up the very turn the pretender appears.

An example for CW pretender:

Dormant Mother of Monsters with N6, D5
Dom6, Turmoil3, Prod0, Heat0, Growth2, Luck3, Magic1

You want turmoil for maxed number of maenads. Maenads are really nice, if you ask me. Luck3 goes with Turmoil3 like a cool shower on a hot day. Growth2 to get higher supply-limit (when you try to move around armies with 2000 maenads, you will get a new view on "supply-problems") not to mention better manikin (oh and Luck3 helps that too). Magic1 to allow slightly faster research (everything adds up as you race towards Mass Protection).

Research Enchantmet 3 first (to get to Revenant who can do the D site searching and summon Mound Kings to lead the manikins), then go for Alteration until you hit Mass Protection.

Manikin will be most efficient when mixed with regular troops. Manikin+maenads is nice, because the manikin stun the opponents and the (frenzied) maenads kill the opponents. The fast manikin (the horse and dog types) can be mixed with centaurs -> manikin stun opponents and the frenzied centaurs tear through anything.
Does the opponent use giants? No worries, a stunned giant is a dead giant when the maenads get to bite their ankles. Does you opponent use a SC pretender with awe, fear, poison and laser beams? No worries, a stunned SC is a dead SC when the frenzied centaurs go medieval on the behind of the SC.

When you get provinces with forests, immediatly build a temple there. In your diplomacy always be stern about forest provinces. Forests are yours. It is worth to go to war over a few forest provinces, if it comes to that. When you see the first elephant manikin spawn in a forest temple, you will be crying in joy; you will remember that moment just like you remember your first born child.

While expanding with the manikin, prepare yourself for the day when the CW will be dispelled. It will be dispelled, don't you worry (there will be a time when you are going to pray for it to be dispelled... the manikin are nice and all, but when there are just too many of them, there simply are too many of them, but CW still continues to kill your population).


Some thoughts on the Bull strategy.

In CBM the White and Black Bull are IMO *very* nice. It's just that they seem to die so easily at times. Happily Baalz did note in some thread how E4 makes a huge difference by pumping up the protection real good. Pans have the pleasure to have a choice between the white and black version, both are very nice although slightly different. The Black Bull can be damn excellent later in the game (gaining massive buffs through reverse communion, then get Reinvigoration cast to reset fatigues, and off you go while the communion masters retreat or shoot with bows), the White Bull is slightly cheaper in design points.

Two examples of bull builds:

Awake Black Bull with E4, N2, B2
Dom10, Turmoil3, Sloth2, Heat0, Growth1, Luck3, Magic0

Awake White Bull with E4, N4
Dom9, Turmoil3, Sloth2, Heat0, Growth1, Luck3, Magic1

First research goal is Enchantment 2 to get Personal regen for the bull, then race Alteration (to get Resist Elements, stone/ironskin not to mention Invulnerability, but also Mass Protection), although I tend to dip to Conjuration 3 too (Summon Earth Power is *nice* for the bull, and you will love Vine Ogres and Sleepers, not to mention annoying your opponents with Call of the Wild).

There are few things that can stop a regenerating stoneskinned frenzied Bull. Ok, Ashdod can (as I found out recently in the Aardwark game), but happily Ashdod is not in EA But as long as you do not attack massed giants, anything should be plowed away. Meanwhile your prophet will lead another army, all the while you generate maenads like mad. However, the glory days for the bull are over soon, and it pays to withdraw to safety when you are still ahead. With E4 the bull can do some very nice forging and cast ritual spells. The Black bull can make a return later, when you have communion capability. I just cant stop drooling over the idea (fantasies, I've never actually succeeded all the following things going in one battle) of a regenerating, lucky, mistformed, flying, trampling, frenzied, bull who has blood vengeance and holy avenger...


The late game.

When planning for the future, remember that Pans are great. You can get some killer communions going, especially if you find some indy astral mages (like lizard shamans, sorceresses), and with a ring of regen plus personal regen they are nearly unkillable with Invulnerability. You will also need to use sneakers more when the regular armies start to disappear, to cut the routes of ground bound SC's and thugs.


Of the troops.

Centaurs are absolutely great. I don't usually use white centaurs, as they are too pricey in my opinion. A frenzied centaur is absolutely fabulous.

Minotaurs I use for on task only: Charge in first at fortress storming. Minotaurs excel at taking forts, but other than that I feel they tend to die in droves.

Revelers are great. Not only do they spread unrest while sneaking, but they kick butt very nice when they go berserk.

[Lingchih]

Interesting. I love playing Pan, and have done so often, but have always used the Gorgon, for the sheer terror it elicits in your opponents. I could use a change though. Perhaps I will go with a bull next time.

I usually do the manikin thing by hand. That is, just research up until you can summon Carrion Lords, and then plop them in forests with temples to reanimate the manikins. Slower, but you don't have the pop death, and don't have to worry about the global being dispelled, and you get a pretty good reanimation rate going fairly quickly, and you still get the elephants fairly regularly.

Of course, that means for the first 20 or more turns, you are just expanding with nationals, maenads, and the Gorgon, but it seems to work OK. I tend to make friends with my neighbors in those games, since your real power is quite a while in coming.

[Jarkko]

Lingchih, in vanilla Dom I would *always* take the Gorgon. In CBM not.

There are two main reasons why I would always take a Gorgon over a bull in vanilla Dom3.

1) The bull in vanilla Dom dies of exhaustion, period. In CBM bulls have reinvigoration 2, and that seems to be all you need for the early phases.

2) The price. In vanilla the Gorgon costs 50 points, which is dirt cheap considering she has Earth and Nature magic to start with (no new paths required to get her going). The bull costs 75 points plus new path(s). Even with the higher starting Dominion the bull simply is not worth it considering how easy the bull dies from exhaustion.
In CBM the Gorgon costs 100 points, the bull is 25 points. With the extra point in Dominion (it costs 147 points to go from Dom3 to Dom9, while it costs 196 points to go from Dom2 to Dom9) that oh-so-precious Dom9 *also* saves up points (making the "true" starting price of the Gorgon 296 points vs the 172 points of the bull).


Regarding summoning the Carrion critters. EA Pan has no death mages available, so to be able to summon carrion spawning commanders, you either have to empower a dryad to Death, be lucky with a wolf-tribe shaman (10% chance for N1D1 IIRC) or buy Death magic on your pretender. In my opinion it is an either or decission, a "choose before the game starts" thingy. Ok, if I happen to get a shaman with N1D1 that's nice and all, but I would for sure not plan the strategy on that. Also, considering manikin are in my opinion at their strongest early on (when there are few WMDs available for opponents), it sort of devalues their efficiency more (although I freely admit it is great to suprise offending SC's late in the game with a manikin rush, but that does in my experience succeed only for one turn and then the opponent is ready).

[Lingchih]

Yes, of course, you are right Jarkko. I wasn't taking CBM into consideration as much as I should have. The price for the Gorgon has become exorbitant in CBM (and I think QM is even going to hit it with the nerf bat again).

And yes, you do have to luck out to pick up a D1N1, or do some empowering, to do the reanimation tactic. And, with Carrion Woods so easy to cast with CBM, it kind of doesn't make sense not to cast it.

[chrispedersen]

Jarrko, have you looked at a 6/5 carrion dragon, awake or dormant?

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Jarrko, have you looked at a 6/5 carrion dragon, awake or dormant?

Yes, the problem with the carrion dragon is that it is hard to get all points spent if you take N6 D5, wether awake or dormant. There always seems to be 2 points too little, or 27 points too many

[chrispedersen]

As I recall there is one way to do it with an efficient use of points. Perhaps its N5D5..?

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

As I recall there is one way to do it with an efficient use of points. Perhaps its N5D5..?

Sadly N5D5 is not enough to cast CW...

[Executor]

I like the CW strategy, but you can't have it up before turn 14 really, well not with a dormant pretender.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Executor

I like the CW strategy, but you can't have it up before turn 14 really, well not with a dormant pretender.

I might be wrong, but in my experience Luck scale affects when dormant pretenders wake up. With Luck 3 (and Carrion Woods without Luck 3 is really not worth it) I've always had the pretender wake up turn 12 latest (usually turn 10 or 11), while with Misfortune 2 I've never had a dormant pretender wake up before turn 12 (usually turn 13). Maybe it's just been a fluke, but it has seemed to me pretty consistent.