Russian LC core?

[Mobryan]

I think I've putzed around enough now to start my 200 battle Russian LC. I'm trying to stay as small as possible while still keeping a combined arms feel and tactics to the game. The core I'm planning on now is:

1 10 tank T-35 company
1 Marine infantry company
1 platoon BA-10 armored car

attachments and misc:
1 battery of 122mm guns (+)
1 battery 82mm mortars
1 sec. ammo carriers
1 battery 37mm AA
FOO in BA-20 AC

What do you guys think?? Too heavy on attachments or artillery? I'm trying to go for a proto-Guards unit now, well trained and supplied (for the Reds, anyhow ) I'm hoping that this is big enough to be flexible but small enough, ~ 1200pts,I don't get totally overwelmed...

Thanks


Matt

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Mobryan

I think I've putzed around enough now to start my 200 battle Russian LC. I'm trying to stay as small as possible while still keeping a combined arms feel and tactics to the game. The core I'm planning on now is:

1 10 tank T-35 company
1 Marine infantry company
1 platoon BA-10 armored car

attachments and misc:
1 battery of 122mm guns (+)
1 battery 82mm mortars
1 sec. ammo carriers
1 battery 37mm AA
FOO in BA-20 AC

What do you guys think?? Too heavy on attachments or artillery? I'm trying to go for a proto-Guards unit now, well trained and supplied (for the Reds, anyhow ) I'm hoping that this is big enough to be flexible but small enough, ~ 1200pts,I don't get totally overwelmed...

Thanks


Matt

Russian infantry is cheap - I would add 2 coys of plain-Jane grunts with 12.7mm HMG at co HQ. They will gain in experience and help in assaults and esp in the defence. The 12.7 Dushka is good for long-range annoyance of enemy troops, esp on those occasions the Nazis try a truck mounted panzer grenadier attack. Upgrade to AT grenade versions when available.

I usually do not bother with marines or other "elite" grunts in the early times - regular infantry will have come up to reasonable experience levels by the time guards units are available for upgrading to.

When the 57mm ATG becomes available, get a platoon or 2 of those. Even in a meeting engagement I push them 1 hex at a time forwards behind a leg rifle coy, or deploy them on the flanks and they deal with Nazi panzers quite well. Upgrade to the sabot equipped ones when available, and use for the rest of the war (good on tiger flanks to 500m or so). I tend to deploy all 6 together as an A/T ambush, not penny-packeting them about the place. (If I need to move them large distances then I buy support trucks as necessary in the set-up phase).

Armoured cars I usually don't bother with in the core - but I like to have a section of T-60 or Zis-30 (then upgrade to T-70, then as SU-76) in support of each rifle coy. They are good for grunt-bashing (esp dealing with enemy HMG teams) and dealing with pesky scout cars and half-tracks. The 45mm will kill panzer 3/4/Stug from ambush into the flanks at 200m or so. A bit "iffy" on panthers, but I have slotted those with the light tanks on occasion too . Just hide with pride when the big tanks are about, and wait to shoot them in the sides from ambush. When these guys have gained some experience they can be quite accurate to 1000m or so, and will be more likely to get critical hits under 500m.

Your armoured cars may want to become light tankettes (better armour) later, or turn into a fast tank platoon with T-34s.

As my core battery I tend to go for the 107mm. Long range, and it does not plough the ground up like the 122mm.

FOO - I usually go for the foot one as less conspicuous.

Andy

[Mobryan]

Thanks Andy.
I did some playtesting last night, currently my marines are getting mobbed by the Polish hordes, so I'll have to think hard about switching to your 2 grunt Coys.
I was planning on getting a T-34 platoon for my armored cars later. I figure I need something with some speed and firepower for scouting, turning flanks, and generally creating mayhem .
The armored FOO was an attempt to keep everyone on the same level of mobility, but if I'm going to have the extra leg coy, I'm slowing down enough for the foot FOO to keep up.
I'll keep the 122's, though. So far, I've had a lot of luck in my European games with dropping wooden bridges in the enemy's way and picking them off as they try to ford later.

Thanks,


Matt

[Lt. Ketch]

I just started a Russian 60 mission LC starting in 9/41. I picked up the following to start with:

1 rifle+ company - I like using the mortar in direct fire mode
1 mountain company - the sniper is handy and each platoon comes with a scout
1 understrength t34/76 compnay - 1 HQ and 1 platoon (4 tanks total)
1 BT-6 section and 1 scout section with kosomollets for recon
2 Zis-30 DT sections - the 57mm is the only way to go for early german tanks.
1 platoon of 122mm howatizers w/ transport - planning on expanding later
2 sections of GAZ-AAMG for the luftwaffa

After my first battle I picked up an additional:
1 platoon KV-1s - for close infantry support
1 Platoon T-34/57 - Tank hunters, again the 57mm is great and more accurate then the 76mm. (They just chalked up their first kills this morning!)
Both are attached to my Tank company.

You can't beat the cheapness of the russian infantry. If you stack them together with two or three squads in a hex you have a very formatable ambush that can decimate the German Squads.

I am planning on picking up 2 platoons of engineers since they are some of the few that have the flamethrower, satchel charge and a LMG. I would also like a platoon or two of mediam to heavy mortars for artilatry. I may end up upgrading my Zis to assult guns but we'll see.

Also, I like using the russian heavy trunks for moving my units. A section of trucks can cary a platoon of infantry. I do have to be carefull that artilary doesn't fall on them and that no body shoots at them, but it's nice not to have to worry about to many units.

[serg3d]

From the realism point of view all Zis-2/Zis-4 gun based units only semi-realistic - the vehicles/guns were available at the 1941, but the manufacture of both vehicles/guns and ammo for them was stopped by the end of 1941 until 1943.
That rule out actual use of Zis-30, T-34/57 and 57mm ATG until 1943.
Zis-30 - only small amount was manufactured, the vehicle was unsuccessful. It had low reliability and was incapable of long marches.
T-34/57 - small amount was manufactured, production stopped due to problem with AP ammo, high cost of the gun and limited availability of guns due to Leningrad siege. The vehicle itself had shown some success in combat, then used by experienced crew.
Zis-2 57mm ATG - the same reasons as for T-34/57.Also high velocity 57mm shells were inflicting less damage on thin armored german tanks then lower velocity 76mm.

But from game fun point of view - they are fun to play. And you can consider them as alternate history route.

Also I always pick some KV (company or understrength company) as infantry buster and damage soakers.
The good idea is to pick up some off-board 152mm artillery for conterbattery fire, though that wouldn't help vs german 170mm and 180mm.
I always pick up a company of cossaks with molotovs for forest fighting and recon. After first battle I replace cossak scouts with lancers.
I'm playing with +150 AI advantage, and facing a huge hordes of AI armor. To stop them I have to have infantry with good AT capabilities. I'm using para or marines, or guard later.
My current campaign (unrealistic):

staring with
1 company of T-34/57 (unrealistic)
1 company of KV-1e (heaviest KV around)
1 battery of 57mm ATG (unrealistic)
2 companies of paratroopers
1 company of cossak
1 battery of 120mm mortars
AO BA-20
reserve AO
4 SPAA
1 battery of 37mm AAA
Later added:
1 battery of 85mm AA/AT
1 btn 152mm off-board artillery
M-5 halftracks for infantry (unrealistic)
a lot of komsomolets ammo carriers


By the end of 1942 you face Tiger I. The only soviet gun that can kill Tiger I at range is 85mm heavy AA/AT gun. But 85mm gun have only 15 AP shells, so I always put ammo carrier behind one.

[Lt. Ketch]

Originally Posted by serg3d

I'm playing with +150 AI advantage, and facing a huge hordes of AI armor. To stop them I have to have infantry with good AT capabilities. I'm using para or marines, or guard later.

I was about to ask which Russian infantry had reliable AT capabilities. The best you get with rifle squads is two handgernades which can only take out a Pz-III - if you assault it 20 times. Personal experience with that one. I know the Molatovs are great, but they practically double the cost of the infantry. I personally like the marines with the longer range rather than the paras.

[serg3d]

Para have more satchel charges then marines, I think. About other infantry - I have just took out Tiger I with two or three assaults of Infantry-AT's 2 men crews with AT mines, not a core force, not an elite, just common auxiliary. Tiger was thoroughly suppressed though. Good AT in forest - cossaks with Molotovs. They are fast and can close to tank in one turn with some luck. They are good not only in defence, but in attack too.

[Lt. Ketch]

That's good. I like the AT teams, but do they have the Anti-tank mines in 41? I can't remember. I'll have to look into that lot and next time I set up a Russian camp (which may be fairly soon, my current one is not going well at all in my mind) I'll pick up a section or two.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

That's good. I like the AT teams, but do they have the Anti-tank mines in 41? I can't remember. I'll have to look into that lot and next time I set up a Russian camp (which may be fairly soon, my current one is not going well at all in my mind) I'll pick up a section or two.

maybe check the enciclopedia?

[Lt. Ketch]

DUH! Thanks.