Nerf

[krpeters]

In light of the recent CBM 1.7 discussion, I think I've figured out where my frustration with Dominions stems from. It's the excessive nerfing tendency. Every time someone finds a relatively easy and effective strategy to use, it gets nerfed. I suppose for multiplayer this makes sense, where balance is more important. But in SP it just tends to turn the game into a troop slogfest.

So, the secret to SP play seems to be antinerfing. I find the following game startup works well:
Sites: 75%
Money: 50%
Resource: 50%
Research: easy
Clam forging: essential

Once you're drowning in gems (relative to cash), you can start truly playing around. Slashing the number of troops on the board also vastly improves the effectiveness of thugs and SCs.

I wonder how this setup would work in MP? Clam forging does give WN nations an advantage over others.

[iRFNA]

My secret to playing SP is this:
Sites: 35%
Money: 100%
Resource: 100%
Research: standard
Clam forging: none

I haven't ever run into problems executing even my most absurd strategies, although that rarely guarantees their success...

Originally Posted by krpeters

Every time someone finds a relatively easy and effective strategy to use, it gets nerfed.

How can you blame them for removing "i win" buttons? What's the point of SP if you can just spam X for victory?

[DeadlyShoe]

Removing gem generators entirely isnt so much nerfing as it is gameplay redesign...

I mean gem-generators arnt necessarily imbalanced, you could have a version of the game where every race has equal access to gem generators. It would be balanced. I only picked up Dominions 3 earlier this year and I've never played MP, but my understanding is that gem generators were removed for gameplay/micro reasons.

It kinda reminds me of Supreme Commander- the vanilla version had exponential growth through mass fabricators, the expansion kicked early mass fabs in the balls so it was much more restricted.

[Quitti]

Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe

I mean gem-generators arnt necessarily imbalanced, you could have a version of the game where every race has equal access to gem generators. It would be balanced. I only picked up Dominions 3 earlier this year and I've never played MP

Wrong.



also, you win SP by taking one province, 125pd, take another province, 125pd, rinse and repeat. Forever. It takes probably gazillion turns and wins you the game. It's still not fun. SP ai is so very boring and fsckd up that it's almost unplayable.

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Quitti

Wrong.



also, you win SP by taking one province, 125pd, take another province, 125pd, rinse and repeat. Forever. It takes probably gazillion turns and wins you the game. It's still not fun. SP ai is so very boring and fsckd up that it's almost unplayable.

I haven't tested this strategy, but I have some questions before experimenting with it.
Do you start by upping the capital province to 125PD before trying to take another? If you want to do that as quickly as possible, you won't want to waste any cash on troops or mages until you're ready to conquer the next province. It should only take about 20 turns for each 125 PD to start. Less as you expand and income goes up, of course.
I'll have to try it sometime. No research, minimal troops, invest everything in PD. Maybe you would win eventually, unless you get hit before you've got that first PD up, which is quite possible. More likely, you'd be in 1 or 2 provinces that the AI couldn't take, but you wouldn't be able to expand with so little resources against the AI hordes.


If that's how you play SP, I see why you think it's unplayable.

[Quitti]

Originally Posted by thejeff

125pd herp derp

Just take a few provinces, and the moment you see any AI, pd125. It'll speed the start by about.. say 100 turns.

It's not how I play SP (I don't play SP at all), it's just an example of how a bad gameplay mechanic wins the AI.

Also, it might not be doable with machaka or the ape pd nations. MA Ulm, MA Pyth probably have the best chance of never ever losing a province.

[krpeters]

Originally Posted by Quitti

also, you win SP by taking one province, 125pd, take another province, 125pd, rinse and repeat. Forever.

7875 gold per province in pd???!!!

And what happens when a 300-strong AI army shows up and eats it?

[Agema]

Originally Posted by krpeters

7875 gold per province in pd???!!!

And what happens when a 300-strong AI army shows up and eats it?

Think of the principle more than the exact methodology.

Start with very affordable 30PD on the border. Increase as required when a big enough army arrives, watch the AI annihilate itself in futile attacks.

By the time the AI collects a army capable of beating uberPD, you should be able to make him go through several provinces of uberPD. He gets past the first, but the remnants will die on the second. By the time he's got a new army capable of beating a second uberPD (and wasted countless more small ones), you'll have several more provinces with uberPD. You win in the end.

I tried this early when I started playing Dom3, albeit with only 70+PD on the border. Just one big army, eat a province, 70PD, move on.

[Quitti]

Originally Posted by krpeters

And what happens when a 300-strong AI army shows up and eats it?

That's the reason you don't use machakan/ape PD. Actually niefel/jotun PD might not be able to survive that either, probably. Either way, I've never seen AI take a province with 125pd. Never. Ever.

If you are concerned, throw in a few mages throwing random evo's and you're 99.9% quaranteed to win. The dom3 AI is stupid.

Say, play a game with MA Pyth - and if you ever manage the AI to beat your 125pd, please send me the turn file. I'd be really interested to see what the composition for AI was for that.

[krpeters]

Originally Posted by iRFNA

How can you blame them for removing "i win" buttons? What's the point of SP if you can just spam X for victory?

You can do that already. Play Pangaea. Take a sleeping Oracle, max your scales, recruit Centaur Warrior [40 gold 12 resources] hordes, and flatten everything the AI throws at you.

The fun is finding new ways to win that aren't 10 times more difficult to implement. When you find one, cheer, then try something different.