Map: Full Map Scenario with Mod Nations

[whiplashomega]

So, I had an idea to make a map scenario that would be something like a real battle of nations. Dominions to me lacks an element of realism, in that in the real world, there isn't really large areas of unclaimed or relatively unclaimed land. Nor are all starting positions created equal. This will be a work in progress for a while, but my hope is to eventually create a balanced scenario with all of the land based vanilla nations as well as a number of mod nations where there are no independent provinces(besides seas). Thus the game begins, and the lack of a pantokrator really does cause all out chaos.

So on that note I started working on building a map file... and then I realized I'm horrible at it. But never fear! the Dom 3 community was there, and I was able to use a random generation map by Gandalf Parker. I put in borders, assigned terrain values and put together a relatively even start where every nation has 9-10 provinces.

There are 25 nations in the current build, including all 20 vanilla land based middle age nations, and 5 mod nations

Haida Gwaii, Hoburg Alliance, my own Harabatia, Skavenblight, and Ogre Kingdoms are what I implemented in this version, though really any nations could be so long as they are numbered between 89 and 93.

Anyway, the base map is 271 provinces (237 land 34 sea), and wraparound(thus no advantageous corner positions).

[lch]

That random map image looks a little dated. I think that's from the map generator that later was incorporated into Dom3. How come you didn't use that one to generate your random map? The idea is very good.

[Gandalf Parker]

The wrap around feature might have been part of it. But I think it would be a good map on its own. People like looking at maps with lots of detail when they are shopping for maps but in actual play I find it gets in the way of things.

Actually, the map image he used is a GIMP image from this set.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/projects/GIMP/
Note for others: GIMP is a free paint program and these were generated with various scripts that come with it while playing with the color-pattern sets.

Excellent work whiplashomega.
And kudos on the image with all the flags showing. Did you use the watcher.dm mod to get that?

But Im afraid that your implementation of added nations is not achieving what you want. If this map is played with no mods turned on then those amount to being very crippled AIs which would be easily taken by whoever is next to them. That can be an interesting game also but not very fair.

It is possible to "fix" those and still only use map commands but Im afraid its not compatible with later playing it with mods.

Im afraid that the "scenario" capability in Dom3 is still broken. Not even as capable as it was in Dom2. But great work on the map.

Gandalf Parker
--
per peer-pressure preoccupation
My maps, mods, and mullings can be found at
http://www.Dom3Minions.com

[whiplashomega]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

The wrap around feature might have been part of it. But I think it would be a good map on its own. People like looking at maps with lots of detail when they are shopping for maps but in actual play I find it gets in the way of things.

I'll quick work out a non-scenario version today and post it

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Actually, the map image he used is a GIMP image from this set.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/projects/GIMP/
Note for others: GIMP is a free paint program and these were generated with various scripts that come with it while playing with the color-pattern sets.

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Excellent work whiplashomega.
And kudos on the image with all the flags showing. Did you use the watcher.dm mod to get that?

No, though same idea, I just quick put together a copy spell of Eyes of God with 0 research level and 0 gem cost, played with every player as human and cast it on the first turn.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

But Im afraid that your implementation of added nations is not achieving what you want. If this map is played with no mods turned on then those amount to being very crippled AIs which would be easily taken by whoever is next to them. That can be an interesting game also but not very fair.

Yeah, issue is I like playing with a number of mod nations enabled, but perhaps it would be better to figure out a different solution, or at least a compromise. For example, instead of 5 modded nations, reduce it to three(also eliminating the problem of two nations with not quite fair starts) and placing some special provinces with good special sites, defenders and so on.

[NTJedi]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

But Im afraid that your implementation of added nations is not achieving what you want. If this map is played with no mods turned on then those amount to being very crippled AIs which would be easily taken by whoever is next to them. That can be an interesting game also but not very fair.

I noticed this map has lots of small seas all across the map. This is a serious problem for the vast majority of AI opponents and provides human players a massive advantage especially during middle and late game. I estimate it would still be good for multiplayer games.

[Gandalf Parker]

Thats true.
Its also an advantage for the sea-going nations that can shoot over a water province to attack. But there is always a place for such maps. None will be perfect for all.

[Aezeal]

Personally I think the nicest way of scenarios is just making somewhat equal starting positions and then adding a lot of special province with defenders etc (I'm thinking of the of the Faerun map)

Another thing that might be fun to add to such a map (I think equal starting positions are a must so it has MP options, if MP isn't an issue I'd just make a weak starting position and let the player start there.) are special magic items placed somewhat randomly in a few of the well defended provinces: if you collect them (or a x number of them) you will have won. Only problem is there should be a way to check if they get lost (not picked up from a battle) And you would have to make the cursed so they can't be placed in the lab (where others can't get to it). It would actually be nicest if the host would tell where recovered artifacts are each turn.

[WraithLord]

I really like the idea.
I hope your project will go well.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

Only problem is there should be a way to check if they get lost (not picked up from a battle) And you would have to make the cursed so they can't be placed in the lab (where others can't get to it). It would actually be nicest if the host would tell where recovered artifacts are each turn.

The host does report items picked up at the end of combat. So, it also in a way lets you know if an item is lost that way. Tracking it thru the game log would be hairy but possible.

Gandalf Parker
--
Its a computer. Nothing is impossible.
The word impossible is a technical term meaning
"I could get it to work but it would be more time and trouble than its worth"

[Gandalf Parker]

I kindof gave up on trying to get maps to move into scenario mode when I found some basic things about it to be broken. Ive posted those but Im guilty of waiting too late in the games development to bring them up.

The closest thing right now to extensive use of map commands to provide scenario type items would be too look into how the SemiRandom program does things. Other than that, you would probably need to go with a mod. And doing mod/map combos hasnt worked too well yet.

Gandalf Parker
--
Any similarities between the above views and those of my employer, my service provider, my wife, or any majority;
will be changed upon notification.