Gem usage and performing ritual spells

[msew]

So the ritual spell order is random. This is all fine and dandy.

What doesn't seem to be random is that the gems for the ritual spells being cast are used up before the spell is cast.

e.g.

-I cast a ritual spell that I put 100 gems into.
-opponent casts distant province attack spell costing 15 gems (fires from afar)


Order comes up that fires from afar goes off first. It kills the mage casting the ritual spell with 100 gems.

Those 100 gems are used up with no result as the mage is dead.

This sort of bites big.

Make it even worse.

3 or 4 mages all casting ritual spells each at around 50 gems a piece. (so ~200 gems get used up)

Enemy casts 3 fires from afar (for 45 gems).

Now the ordering algorithm orders the spells. And the guy spending 45 has a a good chance of getting at least one of his spells in front and nuking the mages giving him a very nice return on his 45 gems. The mages are killed, spells are ruined, and the gems used up.


Certainly you can try to counter act this with domes and rings that protect your from said spells and such.

But the question is: is this intended to be the case or an oversight of the ordering of gem usage. Because the gem usage seems to occur when you first choose to attempt cast the spell vs completion of the spell.

i.e. the client says: for this turn I am going to do these things. Here is the cost. N gold, N resources, N holy, N gems of each type. The server checks to see if those are valid and then deducts them from the player.

Then the turn is processed.


I think the best solution would be to have the cost of the gems used up over the course of the abstracted time period more than likely by just determining (randomly) how far along the mage and refunding the correct number of gems.

e.g. So during the time period it was determined that the mage was killed off halfway through casting his spell. Okie give 50% of the gems back.

[Chazar]

Since responses seem to ebb away a bit, here is just my comment on your proposal:

Hmm, I agree to some extend, but one can also be of the opinion that these rituals take a full month to complete and that almost all gems are already consumed before the Last day. So the enemy mage just managed to finish his spell a couple of hours earlier. Or maybe the gems are used in advance to temporarily empower the mage's apprentices, which were killed by the flames as well?

The question is whether this problem is misbalancing or annoying enough to warrant the additional coding efforts. And I do not think so. After all, all my mages ought to be forging and casting deep down in subterran labs where they are 100% save from seeking arrows and fires from afar anyway, but this would only imbalance these spells compared to earth attack... The game needs to abstract these mechanisms anyway, and I am personally happy with the way these things work currently.

(PS: Oh, please refrain from responses that only insist that CorpseConstruction must be cast on top of the highest spire of the castle in order to work, thus leaving the mage exceptionally vulnerable to SeekingArrow and FiresFromAfar! )

[Kristoffer O]

> (PS: Oh, please refrain from responses that only insist that CorpseConstruction must be cast on top of the highest spire of the castle in order to work, thus leaving the mage exceptionally vulnerable to SeekingArrow and FiresFromAfar! )

What a splendid idea! This one might make it into dom3

[Chazar]

Can anyone tell me why I get an eerie-odd feeling that the Devs watch this forum only to determine what people are not wishing for in order to implement just that? Be careful what you not wish for! Nyaeh!

[Agrajag]

Therefore I do not wish for improved modding tools *cough*

[PvK]

Hahr hahr!

I like the "ritual must be cast from a high exposed place" idea.

I think it's ok that gems are used at the start of the turn. At least it's not the case than if a wizard gets killed while working on a 100-fire-gem enchantment, that the 100 fire gems may fly all over the place and explode... [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon43.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon43.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon43.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon43.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon43.gif[/img] or the 50-death-gem enchanter who gets nailed releases a chaotic 50-death effect in your province...



PvK

[Edi]

Anybody who goes around casting spells that require 50+ gems of a given type with mages who are not protected against elemental attacks gets exactly what they deserve. Seeking arrow is a different matter, unless it is affected by missile protection, but I don't think it is.

Edi

[Alneyan]

Missile protection actually makes you immune to Seeking Arrows; at least, my mage was not hit once after a dozen or so castings.

Luck helps as well, but will not always be enough to negate the arrow; it seems to make the "for some reason, XXX managed to escape his deadly fate" occurrence much more likely. Etherealness does not seem to help however, and does not seem to make the "lucky throw" more likely.

[archaeolept]

i'm pretty sure armor works also.

so: luck, air shield, and armor all protect against seeking arrows.

[Chazar]

Yep, I recall that it was once written ago in some thread that a seeking arrow is treated like a standard shortbow arrow, which additionally does a chest wound if at least one point of damage gets through. Amulets of missile protection do help! And I do know what I am talking about, having played caelum quite often, where those stupid-stubborn high-seraphs insist on having their labs on the highest spires! Do they ever show respect to their non-flying fear-of-heights-afflicted pretender-god they pretend to worship? I say no! [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]