Quote:
embis said:
Just wondered what sort of percentages of points people spend on Arty, Infantry, Engineers, Special Forces,Max number of Snipers etc. To produce a reasonably realistic mix of forces.
I realise there will be variations depending on the type of engagement and maybe even the nationalities. but I am curious as to the variation in what is considered realistic. So I can draw up my own "rules of thumb" for PBEM proposals
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it's not really a rule based on points, but more about what the normal balance of forces would be, that you are trying to get at, in order to stop scout/sniper hordes, or forces that consist of 12 FOOS and a zillion batteries with not much else?.
I'll assume a meeting engagement (with some notes on other types).
General buy policy
You should try to build your forces based on purchase of full companies - not a mish-mash of in dependant platoons bought separately. Generally, all your mech inf coys should use the same model of APC, and your armoured battalions the same model of MBT. It's extremely rare for mixed types within a battalion - as that is a maintenance nightmare!. Your infantry companies should all be of the same type as well - it is highly unlikely for a battalion combat group to be say 2 line rifle coys and a Para and a commando coy al under the same command. allow maybe 1 "foreign" company - so if you have a line rifle bn, you can buy any number of line rifle coys, and maybe 1 Para coy, or if a Leo 2 MBT battalion, allow maybe a company of older tanks like Leo 1, but the main force will be Leo 2 based.
That is possibly a major "unreality" thing (it is also the way the AI buys
! - Players will turn up with a force of say 1 leg rifle coy, 1 mech coy (BTR), 1 mech coy (BMP+3 tank), 1 13 tank T-64 coy and 1 10 tank T-62 coy. Try to avoid such unrealistic "pick and mix" forces if you want to be more reality-based!. (Exceptions would be rag-tag militia forces perhaps, where pick'n mix would be more the rule as opposed to regular armies)
Field Artillery
Most armies work at about 1 battery per battalion in a brigade. There may well be a few more reinforcing units available, but not massive amounts.
Rough guide - allow 2 or 3
tubes of arty (on or off map) per full company bought. (In WW2, playing USA or UK 1943+ then double this maximum). Consider the battle group HQ a "company" (it will be controlling any free unallocated platoons)
Example - My force is 3 rifle coys and a tank coy. 4 coys + BGHQ times 3 = 15 tubes of arty.
So long as the amount is roughly there, no point in quibbling about a tube or so in excess. so in the above example, say you have a UK force which at that time point uses 8 gun batteries and 4 gun troops (half batteries) - 16 tubes for 2 batteries/4 troops of 4 is fine, even if it goes over by 1. 24 arty tubes would not be on!
In an advance - double the limit for the attacker.
In an assault - the sky is the limit for the attacker as this is a prepared assault.
Mortars
As with the Field artillery but 3/4 per full company fielded (including BGHQ company).
Ignore any 60mm or lesser popgun mortars IF these are bought as part of a full rifle companies TO &E (not separate).
do not increase if attacking in an advance, or if assaulting - attacking forces will get extra tube arty, but will still rely on the formation mortars which will not usually be reinforced (even reserve bns in the same brigade will hold onto thier mortars for thier own phase of the attack).
Snipers
Are rare beasts indeed. (ignoring marksmen - real snipers with added FC here, which are merely uncommon).
Any that come as part of the normal TO &E of elite companies (paras say) can be ignored.
Any "extras" bought as separate units - allow a max of 1 per full infantry (not tank!) company fielded.
Scouts - as Snipers.
Generally - recce should be limited to about a section of 2-3 scouts or recce vehicles per full company present (counting BGHQ as a company). If a scout section of 2-3 vehicles comes with integral scouts (say 3 BRDM with 3 scouts as dismounts)- count each BRDM and scout as 1 for totals, ie ignore the dismounts in mech recce platoons. If delaying or defending - allow a platoon under the BGHQ, and that's it. (Ignore any elite companies which come with integral leg scouts.)
Armoured cavalry and similar forces are a pain here. These tend to be a large amount of recce type units!. if a player wants to use armoured cavalry then his force should be an armoured cavalry battalion. All companies should be armoured cavalry in that case, and allow him 1 non armoured cav company (tank or infantry) per 3 full armoured cav companies equivalent bought may be a work-around.
Engineers
When not assaulting - limit to any integral with bought rifle coys (e.g. VC sappers say). Allow a platoon under the BGHQ, whether armoured vehicles or leg. In an assault - a platoon of leg/mech or an AVRE platoon per company fielded perhaps.
Air defence assets
Allow about 2 AA assets (whether AA guns, SPAA, LR-SAM, inf-SAM etc) per full company fielded. Ignore any inf-SAM which come integrated in full infantry company or platoon buys (e.g. Soviet forces). Count the BGHQ as a company as usual.
Allow 1 battery (up to 6) of AAA assets (usually would be area AAA assets like LR-SAM or AA guns) at BGHQ.
Allow double the AAA limits if delaying or defending.
Special farces
These should only ever be used in a scenario game. They are not even likely to be on the same battlefield as your line formations, and definitely not "chopped" under your command even if in the area. Basically - do not use SAS, Spetznatz etc in a normal PBEM game as that would be totally unrealistic.
Anti tank assets
Once upon a time 4-6 ATG or ATGM per battalion would be realistic, but these numbers are increasing as time goes on. I would not bother with any limits here. You probably should not have more AT weapons than your total of rifle squads on the map, though. So with a force of say 40 tanks and 10 rifle squads it would be OK to have 10 AT assets as well, 24 ATGM would probably be a tad too many here.
Paratroopers
if used in a PBEM, these should really only ever be thrown out of perfectly good planes by the
assaulter in an attack/defence pairing (Para missions will take time to plan and are not done ad-hoc). Parachute missions really should be limited to scenarios (paras tend to drop on a lightly defended area, if they do not want to die
. If you do a para assault in a PBEM assault - limit any heavy weapons and vehicles of any type being air dropped by parachute to about 2 per full para company dropped by parachute. (Any that start on the ground are outside this calculation).
PBEM and Insurgents
When playing against guerilla type armies in PBEM where oe side is regular army, then really about the only time the insurgents will sit still and accept a battle is when they are pinned to a place, or they have selected a spot to inflict casualties on the regular forces. Any PBEM game where you play regulars against insurgents should therefore be an assault by the regulars on the defending insurgents. The insurgents then get to have prepared positions, IEDS and so forth. in such a battle in real life the regulars are not trying to take specific geographic objectives (An exeption would be something like a training or supply base which has value - that would be a regular assault with objective hexes), and the insurgents are more interested in causing regular force casualties, and minimising thier own by being in cover and fighting from ambush, and also by slipping away from the contact once it gets too "hot" (Apart maybe from fanatics who will try to extract a price while dying in place - most guerilla types will break from a contact sooner rather than later).
I would suggest that in this case, you make all objectives worthless (zero points) as they are totally irrelevant here, and so where they are placed is also of no consequence.
The regular force player therefore will have to advance to find the (human not AI here!
insurgents, which the insurgent player has set up in cunning ambush positions. The regular force cannot dawdle as the insurgent player has the option of exiting off his map edge where things are not going too well, as there are no "objectives" for him other than a) preserving his force and b) causing government casualties (ie gaining points by destroying high value regular force units liek tanks and the more expensive APC models). The regular government force player will therefore want to whack as many insurgents as possible while not losing high value units, and he also will probably want to get a blocking force round behind the insurgents to stop them voluntarily exiting the map as soon as he can (perhaps by inserting a helicopter desant force in the insurgent's rear area, while trying not to lose an expensive helo in the process
!).
There will always be exceptions - you should discuss with your opponent, wheter to skip any of these suggested guidelines.
A force entirely of RPG-7 inf-AT gunners is not all that realistic, and would be the same "gamey" tactic as an army of snipers and scouts, except
maybe for a Chechen force (in Grozny say) where it would quite likely consist of 50% rifle squads and 50% snipers, scouts, and AT teams and that mix would be reasonably historically ok (but number of indirect fire assets or AAA weapons would be very little, and vehicles nil or maybe 2 or 3 in an entire batallion sized force).
what mix of forces do you use in PBEM?
))
But it was a short game and I didn't have time for counterattack.
Hybrid Mode
