Which Nations Are Best for Turtling?

AlgaeNymph · #1 September 21st, 2009, 04:34 AM

I've eliminated all the indies, I've got about a dozen provinces, and I'm surrounded by nations I'd rather not get into a fight with. My plan? Stockpile gems, research, and units and wait until a neighbor is either weakened or attacking me.

So which nations are best for this?

Quitti · #2 September 21st, 2009, 04:42 AM

Depends if you're playing SP or MP. AI usually does not consider scales or dominion effects, but your best bet in SP would probably be a water nation, and make sure that there are no AI water nations in game (or eliminate them).

In MP it's a bit different story - the nations with specific dom effects, such as ma C'tis' miasma keeps people out or at least makes people think twice before invading - same is LA R'lyeh's insanity dominion. Also nations with top-of-the-line PD might work if you invest gold in it (usually not a good idea, since it'll only do so much). Also if you got abysia as a neighbor, and you have a (national preference for) cold3 scale, neither of you really want to step into each others lands.
Also, power projection always keeps people at bay, that is, stockpile huge amounts of troops into somewhat non-threatening places where they are still seen well enough. It might deter the enemy enough to not attack you.

vfb · #3 September 21st, 2009, 04:42 AM

LA R'lyeh, MA C'tis spring to mind.

Edit: Hey, Japan has ninjas! Not Finland.

Quitti · #4 September 21st, 2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

Edit: Hey, Japan has ninjas! Not Finland.

Ninjas don't care about your petty national borders

AlgaeNymph · #5 September 21st, 2009, 04:54 AM

What about LA Ermor? My one MP win was with turtling that nation.

Calahan · #6 September 21st, 2009, 05:07 AM

Any nation can be turtled in theory, but I'd personally put LA Ermor near the bottom of any 'preferred' or 'best' turtler list.

As it's very rarely that time is on LA Ermor's side once the mid-game is reached, as every nation is likely to be out-researching them. And no matter how many thousands of undead you have, they won't last too long if your opponents have mass killing evo spells or SC's. LA Ermor has to use the mid-game to go on the rampage, grab as much land, and do as much damage as possible before undead counters become both common place and numerous.

AlgaeNymph · #7 September 21st, 2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan

Any nation can be turtled in theory, but I'd personally put LA Ermor near the bottom of any 'preferred' or 'best' turtler list.

What other nations would be bad for turtling?

Foodstamp · #8 September 21st, 2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan

Any nation can be turtled in theory, but I'd personally put LA Ermor near the bottom of any 'preferred' or 'best' turtler list.

As it's very rarely that time is on LA Ermor's side once the mid-game is reached, as every nation is likely to be out-researching them. And no matter how many thousands of undead you have, they won't last too long if your opponents have mass killing evo spells or SC's. LA Ermor has to use the mid-game to go on the rampage, grab as much land, and do as much damage as possible before undead counters become both common place and numerous.

I disagree with this a little. I think the population killing goes a long way to helping turtle. The argument can be made that bags of wine and cauldrons of broth take care of that but not every nation gets access to those out of the box, and often not right away. Also, it is very easy for LA Ermor to get into the water, taking advantage of the suggested water turtling.

Calahan · #9 September 21st, 2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

I disagree with this a little. I think the population killing goes a long way to helping turtle. The argument can be made that bags of wine and cauldrons of broth take care of that but not every nation gets access to those out of the box, and often not right away. Also, it is very easy for LA Ermor to get into the water, taking advantage of the suggested water turtling.

I guess a lot depends on how you define turtling. To me, a turtling nation isn't just one that nobody fancies attacking, and hence are more likely to be left alone to turtle. Such as EA Abysia, MA C'tis, LA Ermor. The act of turtling, or a turtling nation, is one that can get stronger if left along quietly to research/fort/forge/summon etc. At least that's my definition of turtling.

To me you should only really turtle if it is of benefit to your nation, and you shouldn't turtle just because you want to turtle. The game can change too rapidly for that, and anyone caught sticking rigidly to one plan or idea very often misses out on good opportunities. Quite often though turtling is a very valid and entirely correct option, especially if you are waiting for a lucrative opening or if two neighbours are engaged in a mutually destructive war, allowing you to go in and clean them both up once you've turtled enough.

I never said LA Ermor couldn't turtle, but I just don't see any way LA Ermor gets stronger by sitting at home doing nothing but researching at a terrible rate, watching their income disappearing to zero, and leaving their undead hordes waiting around for battle. IMO if LA Ermor turtles, then they get weaker compared to all other nations in the game. So while you can turtle with LA Ermor, it just seems a totally illogical thing to do for me.

But good luck to any LA Ermor turtles who might be out there

InfStorm · #10 September 21st, 2009, 10:06 AM

I find I have a lot of success turtling with MA Ulm. Their PD had good armor and once it's 25+ has enough to blunt most attacks on it's own. Combine that with a strong Drain domain to blunt magic attacks and with your Black Plate offensive forces, the can be quite difficult to pierce.