Double Shield ?

Ragnarok-X · #1 February 21st, 2012, 12:49 PM

Say i got a big pretender with no armor and big hp and i want to take out some "mediocre" indies (like 20, 30 heavy infantry or 50 militas) would it be a good idea to get my trampling pretender 2 black steel tower shields ?

Kobal2 · #2 February 21st, 2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

Say i got a big pretender with no armor and big hp and i want to take out some "mediocre" indies (like 20, 30 heavy infantry or 50 militas) would it be a good idea to get my trampling pretender 2 black steel tower shields ?

Yes and no.
Yes, double shields give double the defence (and protection if the attacker semi-fails his attack roll).
On the other hand, a lone trampler will always be surrounded so defence won't matter all that much unless it has other, additional means of defence (be it huge protection, fear+awe, mistform, luck, etherealness...).

As always, if you want to test things out, the debug mod if your friend.

JonBrave · #3 February 21st, 2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobal2

On the other hand, a lone trampler will always be surrounded so defence won't matter all that much

Is there a pratical/theoretical maximum to how much defence you can lose if surrounded? As I understand it, you lose 2 for each attack after the first. Just how many adjacent attacks can there be?

Kobal2 · #4 February 21st, 2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBrave

Is there a pratical/theoretical maximum to how much defence you can lose if surrounded? As I understand it, you lose 2 for each attack after the first. Just how many adjacent attacks can there be?

Even if we're just talking bottom of the barrel human spearmen with 10s everywhere, 3 dudes per square times 8 is still 24 attacks. Even if your guy has 54 defence (10 to offer average defence to the last spearman, 44 to be shaved off 2 at a time by successive attacks) and zero fatigue, he's going to get hit at least once every other round, statistically

.

rdonj · #5 February 21st, 2012, 10:55 PM

Shields don't exactly add "defense" per say. It's more like they add a chance to add protection. And IIRC shield-given defense can't be mitigated. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But the way that dual shields works out is non-obvious. It *seems* that shield defense is additive, and if you have dual shields then they will block based on the sum of the parry value, and may or may not their protection together. If someone has hard facts stating otherwise please prove me wrong because to my knowledge no one knows exactly how dual shields work in this game.

BewareTheBarnacleGoose · #6 February 21st, 2012, 01:55 PM

I think that would be a bad idea, unless your pretender is 0 enc, and since it sounds like you are talking about a Great Mother, it's not. Trampling racks up crazy enc, and the blacksteel shields add 2 enc each! Also, shields add defense, which is the worst...er, defense...against chaff, because each subsequent attack subtracts 2 defense. Protection is better, so a black steel plate would be a better use of gems, and you wont need that after you can research stoneskin. If you are using CBM, an owl quill is good gear for tramplers, as it now lowers base enc, but any reinvigoration gear is useful. With enough reinvigoration, dual shields can be useful, but shields with magic effects like vine, accursed, charcoal, gold, or lantern shields are all better than those that just provide defense.

Kobal2 · #7 February 21st, 2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BewareTheBarnacleGoose

I think that would be a bad idea, unless your pretender is 0 enc, and since it sounds like you are talking about a Great Mother, it's not. Trampling racks up crazy enc, and the blacksteel shields add 2 enc each! Also, shields add defense, which is the worst...er, defense...against chaff, because each subsequent attack subtracts 2 defense.

Again, depends on what *else* he's got besides the two shields, and exactly what kind of opposition he's expecting.

I've succesfully used an E4/S4 Lord of Plenty as a dual-shielded, boots of the behemoth'd trample machine before. Personal Luck, Body Ethereal, Stoneskin, hold, hold, attack closest. Later on, Earthpower, Invulnerability, Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, hold, attack closest.
Even though the fatass permanentely hovered around 40-60 fatigue at best, and even went unconscious many times, he just destroyed indies, or in my case clumps of 40ish Pan Revelers trying to be cute. Didn't have fear, either (he did have Awe from a golden shield)

Ragnarok-X · #8 February 21st, 2012, 05:09 PM

in theory, as many as 6 hoburgs x 8 squares = 48 attacks ?

Shangrila00 · #9 February 21st, 2012, 05:27 PM

3 se'irim (size 2 demons with 3 attacks) x 8 squares = 72 attacks. Since Se'irim are sacred, with a W9 bless, every other round will have 144 attacks.

Nightfall · #10 February 21st, 2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

Say i got a big pretender with no armor and big hp and i want to take out some "mediocre" indies (like 20, 30 heavy infantry or 50 militas) would it be a good idea to get my trampling pretender 2 black steel tower shields ?

2 shields, when used for the specials on the shields, rather than the defence, are great for 0 enc tramplers or an SC that relies on passive damage.

It mainly usefull because there are some great shields available that are relatively inexpensive; black steel, not one of them.