What do I build to counter High def glamour units?

[Action]

This isn't another balance thread about van/hel heim balance in multiplayer blitzes (whatever those are). I've never played multiplayer.

Rather, it's a more basic question, about single player.

What type of units should I build to counter the AI Helheim's high defense glamour units. These units aren't really blessed, at least not often. It's not just the helhirdlings, the non sacred cavalry tear me up too, and the glamour infantry are pretty hard to kill as well.

For example, Last turn I had a block of Sarmation Amazons and the AI glamour cavalry (unlessed) will just ride up to em and kill them all, at like 4-1 odds, taking no losses, and often not taking a point of damage.

These Cavalry have 19-20 defense plus the glamour ability, so units with just a medium attack ability seem to be unable to scratch them. They don't kill my Amazons super fast, but they do steady damage and my amazons can't hit them at all.

I tried Cavalry, but the Sarmation cavalry has low attack as well, and gets torn up even worse than the infantry, since it can't gang up.

I've had my best success with archery, which deglamourize the infantry pretty well, but against the cavalry, it's tougher. They move very fast close into melee range quite quickly. With 11 prot and shields and the glamour ability, they survive the arrows quite well although they do take some damage, my troops take a lot too. The AI also has a 70% air shield bless, but lucky for me he doesn't actually bless them.

So, my question is, what troops should I be building to counter these guys? It doesn't have to be Sarmatia specific, just in general. I'm not losing thanks to my Gorgon, but this is the first time my troops have been outclassed this badly in quite a few games heh.

Right now the only way I've really had success is routing them with fear spells after killing their buddies, and my Gorgon pretender who could probably kill an unlimited number of them, hehe.

[Kristoffer O]

AoE attacks can be good, particulart poison, since everyone in the area is poisoned and starts taking damage. They should then loose their glamour. Hydras should be good in the case of sauromatia. It also has lots of attacks to maximize thce chances of hitting someone in melee.

Slingers are probably better than other ranged weapons cost wise. You only need one point of damage to get rid of the glamour, so the sling should be almost as effective as the bow (apart from having slighter chance of penetrating armors).

[Arralen]

Kristoffer O said:
Slingers are probably better than other ranged weapons cost wise. You only need one point of damage to get rid of the glamour, so the sling should be almost as effective as the bow (apart from having slighter chance of penetrating armors).

.. but its quite hard to get that 1 point of damage, with the boosted shields which totally block missiles, and with the low damage and abysmal precisions from slings in general - they tend to miss a horde of LC right in front of them.

Poison is a very moderate use, as most nations do not have easy access to it, all those poison spitters and spells are as accurate as slings (don't hit the broad side of a dragon from point blank) - and most time the fast LC simple moves through the small poison clouds without getting harmed: They would have to stop for 1 turn within them to get poisoned.

Realistically, until the late mid-/ early endgame, against W9 or N9 or even F9W9 Helhirdlings or Vans there's only 1 thing most nations can do, unless they have access to high-level bladewind: Die gracefully ... :/

PS: And fire arrows do not help you to actually hit the buggers and get past their shields - but they are great to kill your own troops with "friendly fire" while those are swarming the Vans

[Corwin]

Arralen said:


PS: And fire arrows do not help you to actually hit the buggers and get past their shields - but they are great to kill your own troops with "friendly fire" while those are swarming the Vans

I think they do,a little. They make arrows magical, which should give it additional +2 bonus to hit its target. Not much, but better than nothing.

[curtadams]

Watching the AI performance with LA Vanheim has convinced me the glamour units are too good for the price. The last two times I've seen them they've done unbelievably well compared to other nations - twice as many provinces picked up as any other nation. I haven't had spies, but looking at what, when, and where they conquered it looks like they can clean out independents with no losses. In the early game 20+ def with mirror images is virtually invulnerable and you shouldn't be able to recruit units like that right off the bat.

[PheasantPlucker]

Here's an alternative - TRAMPLE.

I initially struggled with EA Arco against their glamour units, until I started buying something I hadn't used before - chariot archers.

Get about 20-30, give them hold and attack orders. Voila - they shoot a couple of rounds of archery fire into them as they approach, and then chaaarge - SQUISH!

I won against the glamour units with almost no casualties using those mighty chariot tramplers.

[PDF]

Try Fire Arrows asap, it should do the trick !

[DominionsFan]

PDF said:
Try Fire Arrows asap, it should do the trick !

Sadly only a few nations can use that spell.

[Boron]

Action said:
So, my question is, what troops should I be building to counter these guys? It doesn't have to be Sarmatia specific, just in general. I'm not losing thanks to my Gorgon, but this is the first time my troops have been outclassed this badly in quite a few games heh.

Yeah the normal Van/Helheim troops rock too .

As a rule of thumb i noticed in my SP games that you have to outnumber them 5:1 at least to have a chance.
If you outnumber them that much their fatigue+swarming eventually kills them.

Missile troops help, and battlemages help a lot, especially bladewind and magma eruption are useful spells.

If you play a blessnation like F9W9 Mictlan you should not have too much problems with the AI van/helheim armies.

[Gandalf Parker]

Isnt there equip to see thru glamour?