The FASTBOAT Patch page.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Hello!
The Mission Statement:
I've discussed this and wanted to submit my next patch suggestions etc. on a separate thread because I've gone from maintaining 3 or 4 threads last year to 9 or 10 threads currently. By putting all this on one thread I hope to make it easier for those directly involved in putting together the patches only one place to look since, it turns out I will be providing information dealing with all threads started by me to date. I respectfully request of all others to please not too comment here, I will later cut and paste or copy these items into their appropriate threads for such purposes. Basic principles that will guide me through this process are as follows:

1. I will maintain the agreed upon format from last year for new equipment only, i.e. USA/1968/M551 Sheridan/C4/152mm (20Rs), MGM-51 Shillelagh (9), AA 12.7mm (1KRs) & 7.62mm (3KRs). Some older equipment that I think should be added due to earlier omissions will be in this format as well.

2. Due to the economic situation around the world, we've seen many significant modifications to existing equipment some of which will be designated as different models of existing tanks etc., so to save time I'll be using the following terms and will provide an example of one such.
A. As in the game. Simply this covers everything after the name as shown above. Any addition to this will be noted in bold.
B. Mod(s) needed per refs above existing NAME levels (For that countries unit). I'll provide quick notes and let the refs do the talking.
C.RESET. Is the same as a "zero mile" refit to an existing vehicle etc., where it's been completely stripped down to the hull then completely rebuilt, the Turkish/Israeli program to update 170 of Turkeys M60A1 tanks to the M60T is a prime example of this. An exception to this I have is the LEOPARD 2 A7+ which is being built new now with the previous version the LEOPARD 2 A6 to be brought to this standard as they go into major depot overhauls. To reflect the above:
INDIA/Jan 2012/ARJUN MKII/As in the game, ADD LAHAT x 10/Mods needed per refs above ARJUN levels.

3. ADD. As it says for new or revised equipment.

4. CHANGE. Primarily looking at date issues here as I've got several of these but can cross over to other areas based on "hard" refs.

5. DELETE. Never had it or got it due to financial or program delays/or cuts again supported by refs.

6. MOD. This is a very general area where a) A general name change for equipment w/explanation. b) I might not have enough or have less reliable refs. to support adding or changing equipment. c) As I'm not a technical expert in converting this info into game info, such as the USMC M60A1 RISE ERA the Icon shows the ERA wrapped around the turret and hull which is correct to the pictures online however, the "points" were only increased on the frontal turret "lobe" the rest has the same armor points as the non ERA protected version. I ask for your patience in these matters they'll be more in the vain of "curiosity" then "questioning" the information.

7. I will use previous posts to support the info as well such as APC Post #12 at the end of each item as needed.

8. If additional info is needed please ask for it such as MBT 1 or MBT 6 and what you require. I'll do my best to get what you need. And if anyone else has any issues please use the same format in the appropriate thread.

Well I was always taught to have a mission statement, it informs every one of your goals and focus and hopefully keeps you on track as well. I’ll do the best I can with what I have and hope I have not created extra work due to missing items while "combing" the game to avoid that issue. Please let me know if this is better for those involved, for everyone else thanks for your support and patience.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

As I'm not a technical expert in converting this info into game info, such as the USMC M60A1 RISE ERA the Icon shows the ERA wrapped around the turret and hull which is correct to the pictures online however, the "points" were only increased on the frontal turret "lobe" the rest has the same armor points as the non ERA protected version.
Regards,
Pat

USMC Unit 608 ( M60A1 RISE-ERA ) has 4 reactive all around the turret

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First installment for the 2011 patch. If no end date is given assume 2020 for current game.
MBTs
Add:
A1. USA/JUN 2010/M1A1 SA/ED/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M1A1 ABRAM levels. Improved electronics and sensors, improved armor against IEDs and mines and can be in theater upgraded with the urban TUSK pkg. Recommend base and mirror unit w/TUSK up armor pkg.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...a-tanks-02535/
http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/03/05...t-at-anniston/

A2. IRAQ/DEC 2010/M1A1 SA/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M1A1 ABRAM levels. As above w/o the advanced ERA pkg. and BFT program.
Recommend base and mirror unit w/TUSK up armor pkg.
Please note these refs to include some bleed over info to both types.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...013/#more-5013
http://www.usf-iraq.com/?option=com_...684&Itemid=128
http://www.dapss.com/mpi-news/0709/0709C-iraq.htm
http://www.stripes.com/news/u-s-tank...i-army-1.89069
http://www.deagel.com/Main-Battle-Ta...000516002.aspx

C1. Change: IRAQ/M1A1M to M1A1 SA per refs. above.

A3. USA/JAN 1977 – DEC 1986/M60A1 RISE Passive/C4/RB 105mm L51 M68 w/63 Rds, M240 7.62mm w/5.9 Rds & M85 12.7mm w/900 Rds.The USA developed the ERA packages late in the life of this tank but, never to be used them. The development of the M60A3, M60A3 TTS and the dawn of the M1 stopped this. The USMC actually got them from the USA stocks during Desert Shield prior to combat operations. RISE Passive was the pinnacle of the M60A1 MBT.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a1.htm
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M60.html
Post #73.
Pics:


A4. TURKEY/JUN 1991 or JAN 1994/M60A1 RISE Passive/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing M60A1 RISE Passive levels, with ERA. These are the USMC tanks that were donated to Turkey. The confusion in the dates comes from the net, I found a document that I couldn't recover that showed Congress did not approve the release of the more advanced M60 series tanks for export until 1993. I will attempt to recover this if possible, for now, I can only say I saw it. I feel the JAN 1994 date is best for all foreign M60 advanced tanks (M60A1 RISE Passive and M60A3 TTS). From what I can tell Turkey is the only country to have recieved the M60A1 RISE Passive tank, all other U.S. serviceable units were upgraded to the M60A3 & TTS versions when these became available to the USA. NOTE: ALL M60 series tanks are still in service with the Turkish army. If not change of end dates are required to 2020. See M60T below refs to support this if needed.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
http://www.turkishworld.multiservers.com/equipment.html
http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/...e_Turkish_Army

C2. Change: USA (If added.), USMC & TURKISH (If added.)/M60A1 RISE to M60A1 RISE Passive or just M60A1 Passive based on Posts #73 and #74 to avoid confusion and identify the most important mod to the M60A1.

A5. CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M CAN/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing LEOPARD 2A4 levels.
The improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines. And some sensor upgrades. Don't know but is the thermal site on the turret pictured below on the frontal view new as well?
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U...ws_detail.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18620/
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/id...1018_1_n.shtml
http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...ghanistan.aspx
Pics:


A6. GERMANY/JAN 2011/LEOPARD 2A7+/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing LEOPARD 2A6 levels. The improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines, sensors, remote operated secondary weapons station and munitions.
http://www.kmweg.de/21874-bD1lbg-~PR...opard_pso.html
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U...ws_detail.html
A more detailed account use page advance for both above. Note links to left for LEOPARD 2A4M CAN and DINGO 2 purchase for later post. Also German LEOPARD 2A6 tanks will be RESET to this standard during major depot maintenance. Also provides update to countries such as Netherlands having updated all their A5's to A6 levels.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
A very good site I believe from someone who is a member of our forum. Also addresses upgrades of these tanks i.e. 2A4 to 2A5 from other countries, has this issue (For the longer term.) been looked into for the game?
Post #60 Should provide a working basis for the German multi-purpose munition as well off those videos. The video on the left if I remember goes into more detail on the IDF APAM-T M1171 round.
Pic:


A7. INDIA/JAN 2012/ARJUN MK II/As in the game with LAHAT. Mods needed per refs above existing ARJUN levels. Will have LAHAT ATGM, added two tons of additional armor of a hybrid ceramic type also will add next gen ERA to the turret, auto loader and improved sensors and electronics.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...984/#more-4984
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Sec...4101274452185/
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-F...rmy-Orbat.html Official Army website, might be of some interest though it looks like it hasn't been updated in several months.

M1. Mod: INDIA/MAY 2009/ARJUN MK1/As in the game with LAHAT and date change as indicated. Mods needed per refs above existing ARJUN levels. Of LAHAT and date change there is no doubt, however as I stated in my "mission statement" I'm no expert in converting raw data into game data and just have to rely on my instincts of what I'm reading. With that in mind, I believe the ARJUN might deserve another look based upon the above refs and previous posts provided below. TI/GSR looks good at 40, just not sure of armor or FC based on the refs and the way it outperformed the T-90S in every category. When I read that the armor is similar to the venerable Challenger 2, the wheels start turning in a novice like me. NOTE: All ARJUN MK1 tanks will be upgraded to the MKII standard during major depot maintenance and I would not think much before mid to late 2013 as the current order of the 124 MK11 tanks starts winding down, will track this.
Posts: #9, #19, #36, #75 and #76 some bleed over (#75L) for MKII as well.

M2. Mod: TURKEY/JAN 2007 - DEC 2009/M60T/RESET/As in the game with 60mm mortar 15 to 25 RDs and date change as indicated. Net conflicts here based on rounds carried on MERKAVA 4 and SABRA. They are for all tanks here internally mounted and tied into both sensor and FC for suppression (or elimination ) of ATGM teams, snipers and infantry.
TURKEY/JAN 2010/M60T/RESET/As in the game with LAHAT 6 - 10 RDs and date change as indicated. Mods needed per refs above existing M60A3 IMI ST levels as currently named in the game. Though the TI/GSR is less then the MERKAVA 4 but supposedly has the same FC unit installed is of a lesser issue than I believe it's armor ICON defense numbers. Most of these references presented or already posted refer back to having many of the systems of the MERKAVA 4 installed such as FC, sensor and other electronic upgrades, weapons and armor (My focus is on the frontal turret and hull area.). The source will illustrate this reasonably well, it's the IMI press release on delivery of the last M60T to Turkeys MOD. Please the note the close up shot of the M60T, that armor looks the same as on the MERKAVA 4. I just feel it deserves another look is all. LAHAT again net conjecture go low or go mid would be my guess high might be advertising.
http://www.imi-israel.com/vault/docu...d%20m-60a1.pdf
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
Posts: #15, #17, #25, #66 and #71.

C3. Change: TURKEY/M60A3 IMI ST to M60T per refs and posts above.

C4. Change: TURKEY/End Date to JUN 2009/M60A1/ As in the game. Mods needed per refs above for M60T. I feel this a good approximate time that the last of the Turkish M60A1 tanks would have had to start the RESET process to the M60T.

C5. Change: TURKEY/End Dates to DEC 2020 as needed./M60 series/ As in the game. Mods needed per A4, M2 and C3 their refs above if not already done.

M3. Mod: TURKEY/JUN 2008 - DEC 2020./LEOPARD A1T and A4T UPGRADE/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T & A4. Rough guess on the start field date, upgrade was completed in NOV 2009. I've also seen some blog information to suggust the A1T recieved some armor upgrades as well, it makes sense considering the investment in this system, however unless I missed it I can't provide you with anything concrete. Your call on the armor.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...59&c=EUR&s=LAN
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/...d1A1A1A4T.aspx
http://www.aselsan.com.tr/urun.asp?urun_id=79&lang=en
C6. Change: TURKEY/ End Dates to DEC 2020 as needed./LEOPARD series up to and including A4T/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T. The LEOPARD A1 T is the first version purchased by Turkey and just completed a major overhaul of it's FC and associated systems in NOV 2009.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
http://www.turkishworld.multiservers.com/equipment.html

M4. Mod: Israel/2010/MERKAVA 4b/As in the game with TROPHY system 6-10 shots. Mods needed per refs above MERKAVA 4b . These sources would lead you to believe it has an even newer version of hybrid armor. This is one reason I didn't also use the armor request for the M60T to be compared to the 4b. What's not in doubt is that the first IDF Battalion to operate with the improved MERKAVA did so about two weeks ago with the TROPHY system installed. TROPHY shots again net conjecture go low or go mid would be my guess high might be advertising. This close in protection system might be hard to model in the game but, have brought this up with John (Imp) and thought that VIRSS as the game uses it might be a short term solution to getting it in the game. The troop carrying issue well that's been discussed to great length the only option is a heavy APC carry 6 so more ammo is available. Your call.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/merkava4/
http://www.defense-update.com/newsca...kava.html#more
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18649/ MERKAVA 4 w/TROPHY exercise.
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/merkava.htm#topPage
http://www.janes.com/events/exhibiti...aks-cove.shtml
Posts: #45, #60 (With video fm "Future Weapons show.), #61, #62 and #65. Troop issue #52 and #56.
Pics:

C7. Change: TURKEY/2012 to 2015/BLACK PANTHER to ALTAY/As in the game. Many of the refs for the M60T make mention of some of the issues and delays in the ALTAY MBT program. Best estimates are that the ALTAY prototypes will be ready by 2013 and barring any major teething problems fielded by 2015. Picture is good as compared to current 3D renderings on the net for the ALTAY.

C8. Change: USA/Dates as follows for all types of Sheridan's/As in the game. Mods of dates needed per refs for SHERIDAN all types.
A. M551/JAN 1968 to JAN 1977/ Base model.
B. M551 TWO BOX (M551 CS in the game.)/JAN 1969 - JAN 1977/Modified for operations in Vietnam. Kit installed for turret and weapons stabilization after removing missile components (Except pwr. sup. & rate sensor.) w/no missiles. These modifications allowed for the increase of 152mm FLECETTE rounds and MG ammo stowage. This end date (Otherwise 1975 your choice.) allows for 2yr. overlap in conversion to;
C. M551A1/JAN 1975 - DEC 1988/This added the ANVVG-1 LRF (Some indicate ANNVG-1 LFR.) For info and clarification before I move on you need to know the following: In FY 1980 The SHERIDAN was phased out by the regular ARMY. In FEB 1984 the Arkansas NG retires the SHERIDAN, it would be the only NG unit to have used them. However the 82nd AB Div. (AIRBORNE, ALL THE WAY!! for those who served.) convinced the ARMY to keep them which they did.
D. ADD/M551A1 TTS/JAN 1989 - JULY 1997/UPGRADED with the
ANVSG-2B TTS (Some indicate ANNSG-2B TTS.) These tanks again saw combat in Panama and Desert Storm with a better combat reputation then it had in Vietnam with the 3-73 Armor Batt. of the 82nd AB Div., in JULY 1997 they were finally retired to be used at NTC CA.
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M551.html
http://www.82armor.com/82nd_armor.htm This source was leaned on more because I'll go with the men and woman who've served and used the actual gear every time if the info can be corroborated with others.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a3.htm Same system as on M551A1 TTS.
Post: #7

D1. DELETE: TURKEY/M1A2T FNSS/Due to political reasons this was DOA. Current ref. shows who has what in the ABRAMS foreign market.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/

D2. DELETE: TURKEY/T-84 YATAGAN/Though it was one of four tanks tendered, Turkey went with the LEOPARD 2A4. The YATAGAN has only been exported to one country, Pakistan.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84.htm
TRANSFER (?) to Pakistan, I'm a little tired right now but went back to check and didn't see it there unless I just forgot the Pakistani name for it.

D3. DELETE: INDIA/MBT-EX KARNA/Meant for export but DOA when ARJUN was delayed.
http://frontierindia.net/tank-ex-ideal-t-72-upgrades

I think this might be the worst of it, I hope! If again any additional info is needed please again ask by the numbers. All seems in order and I really hate rabbit holes now!?!

Regards,
Pat

[thatguy96]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

B. M551 TWO BOX (M551 CS in the game.)/JAN 1969 - JAN 1977/Modified for operations in Vietnam. Kit installed for turret and weapons stabilization after removing missile components (Except pwr. sup. & rate sensor.) w/no missiles. These modifications allowed for the increase of 152mm FLECETTE rounds and MG ammo stowage. This end date (Otherwise 1975 your choice.) allows for 2yr. overlap in conversion to;

The Technical Bulletin for the "Special Configuration" is dated May 1969, and a change was made in September 1969 to add in armor to the vehicle's underbelly to help protect against mines. I also wouldn't have though there would have been any M551s in Vietnam after the pullout of major ground forces, especially as none were turned over to the ARVN. I would suggest these vehicles were demodified as soon as they returned to the States or where ever else they were headed, though I really can't quickly find anything to back that up.

This source also states that the M551 was still being "washed out" of the majority of the active Army in 1978 and into 1979.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For the previous post additional Pics:
LEOPARD 2A7+ Remote weapons station.
USMC M60A1 RISE Passive as donated to Turkey.
Turkish M60A1 converted to the M60T like the difference between night and day.
This discussion was almost as bad as the "CM Arty" thing but, it needs addressing though to some extent.
It is a beautiful machine and it can carrying luggage or camping gear for those long trips.

Gentlemen please let me know when it's safe for me to delete the refs used in the previous post from my favorites list. It'll save me time and keep me organized for the next push. Many thanks!!

I've pushed the "social network" theme to the limit somewhat this week and today in particular so I'll just say good night!?!
No worries all's good!! To all have a great week!!!!

Regards,
Pat

P.S.
Understand I'm a little tired here and I do appreciate the additional info but, PLEASE READ POST #1!! THANK YOU!

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

A5. CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M CAN/RESET/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing LEOPARD 2A4 levels.
The improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines. And some sensor upgrades. Don't know but is the thermal site on the turret pictured below on the frontal view new as well?
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U...ws_detail.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18620/
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/id...1018_1_n.shtml
http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...ghanistan.aspx
Pics:
Attachment 10617 Attachment 10618

M3. Mod: TURKEY/JUN 2008 - DEC 2020./LEOPARD A1T and A4T UPGRADE/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T & A4. Rough guess on the start field date, upgrade was completed in NOV 2009. I've also seen some blog information to suggust the A1T recieved some armor upgrades as well, it makes sense considering the investment in this system, however unless I missed it I can't provide you with anything concrete. Your call on the armor.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...59&c=EUR&s=LAN
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/...d1A1A1A4T.aspx
http://www.aselsan.com.tr/urun.asp?urun_id=79&lang=en
C6. Change: TURKEY/ End Dates to DEC 2020 as needed./LEOPARD series up to and including A4T/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above LEOPARD A1T. The LEOPARD A1 T is the first version purchased by Turkey and just completed a major overhaul of it's FC and associated systems in NOV 2009.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html
http://www.turkishworld.multiservers.com/equipment.htmlPat

RE the various armour upgrades being made to the former German Leo 2a4's

Is there any source that even hints ( a little bit )that these may be close or more or less effective than say .......... the armour package on the 2a6's ? Most of this is a WAG at the best of times but we try to make changes based on some concrete information besides.. " well, they say they've upgraded beyond what it was in the mid 90's in Germany so lets add 10% more all around just becasue".

Don

[DRG]

Gentlemen please let me know when it's safe for me to delete the refs used in the previous post from my favorites list. It'll save me time and keep me organized for the next push. Many thanks!!

I'm not sure what you mean here. If the reference links are posted on the forum why would you need a backup in your favourites list ?

A couple of things though........ as much as complete information is nice to have anything that has "improvements are primarily in all around armor protection against IEDs and mines" has no change in game terms as either something is a MRV or not as we cannot set it up as "slightly more mine resistant" so any armour improvements in that regard on existing vehicles means nothing in game terms beyond *maybe* an increase in the survival number but 6 is the limit

You have waded though considerable amounts of information to get these summaries but now I have to wade though the summaries. Yesterday I worked through four pages of notes on the to do list submitted by various people and that consumed 6 hours. That used to be a "normal" day for me working on the game. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury this year for a number of reason I won't go into beyond it involves a close elderly relative in hospital but in some cases just figuring out what people want me to change takes all the time I have available to work in a given day.

The bottom line is I will endevour to address these issues as time permits but there will be times I'm going ask you WTF this or that means or just skip it if I'm pressed for time

Don

P.S.... Knowing the game unit numbers speeds things up considerably

[DRG]

TRANSFER (?) to Pakistan, I'm a little tired right now but went back to check and didn't see it there unless I just forgot the Pakistani name for it.

There is no t-84 in the Pakistani OOB and so far the only info I have found is 320 were contracted to be sold to them and other source says " Not T-84 Pakistan dosen't have it"

so I'll just hold off on this until less conflicting info is found

Don

[DRG]

Understand I'm a little tired here and I do appreciate the additional info but, PLEASE READ POST #1!! THANK YOU!

Yeah, I read post #1 and I don't have time to send PM's. This is the only thread you need to post changes to this next patch and from time to time, as noted, there is a good possibility there will be questions. Marcello's Iraqi thread is a good example of how that works successfully

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Open to all for this question!
Alright before CINCLANTHOME gets back, this unit number thing, I've looked and obviously am missing it! So I open the game, go to the encyclopedia, click on USA, click on M1A1 and it brings it up, now what? Is it the Icon number? This is to help Don and Andy especially in the areas of CHANGE or MOD to a particular unit. Might have at least two more pages the length of the last. No response please from Don and Andy you have other things to do!!
Thanks for your help!! Please by steps after all I are bubblehead! I think I hear footsteps, gotta go!!!!

Thanks Again!!!
Regards,
Pat