Wanted: Online Pretender Database

[silhouette]

Quote from Chazar in another thread:

Another key is to setup a sensible strategy AT PRETENDER DESIGN. [...] There are many nation specific threads which discuss pretender design and the idea behind it. Just search for nation names...
(its really a shame that there is no canonical set of pretender templates with a short description revealing the idea behind them!!!)

I see comments like this a lot, so let's formalize a discussion and do something. Here is what I think we need, an Online/Web Pretender Database.

Basic requirements:

• Web interface to SQL database
• Some sort of login/userid system
• Uploader enters all the parameters for pretender/nation design
• Uploader describes the intended plan, strategy, playstyle (bless usage, research targets, expansion plans, mods used, etc)
• Searchable with a simple interface (like the Grimoire for spells), e.g. all Wyrms with Astral > 1, or R'lyeh with Luck 3, etc.

Improvements:

• Users can directly upload newlords files, and the server parses them directly into the database. This would require some reverse engineering or some help with file format or headers from the developers.
• Users can download a pretender as a newlord file to start a game directly
• Allow others to vote/rate submitted pretenders, and have a rating which can be part of search criteria
• Allow others to add 'comments': their analysis of the build, did it work in their games, advice for use or tweaks to improve
• Consistency checks for point totals / handles common mods
• Add Dom3 compatability
• Shared login with a phpBB or some forum, to keep the trash talk out of pretender comment fields

I can see a lot of potential. It's great for starting users, so they can see example builds and reasons for choices. Even experienced players probably have nations they don't seem successful with, so this can give insight in how others play them successfully. It can be used for multiplayer games (random nations, you will be assigned a pretender design from the database rated 6 out of 9 or better). It can capture some of the lessons learned from AARs ("I planned to expand fast using mercenaries, but these scales don't guarantee enough income..."), etc.

It seems like a pretty straightforward job for someone with some php and sql experience. What would you like to see in such a database, and who can we talk into taking a run at making it?

Sill

[Edi]

I'm the one you want to talk to about making a database, as I'm the one who authored the Dominions 2 Unit DB, the Weapons and Armor DB and the current incarnation of the magic site DB. Those were all done in Excel, so they're basically just spreadsheet references.

I'm going to make a Dom3 DB and that one will be in SQL and could be adapted for what you have in mind. The snag is that since it is going to be a generic units/weapons/armor/nations db, it is going to be pretty large and detailed, rather than just the pretenders, and it sure as hell is not going to incorporate scales, dominion points or magic level point costs as such.

Depending on how detailed the IW guys want a user accessible DB to be, they may let me see the source code for units or parts of the code that will help in designing DB.

So it'd be up to someone else to do the frontend for a program that designs pretenders, but I don't think IW will give anyone enough support to sytart messing with the file formats. It'll really be enough if the frontend allows for pretender design and outputs a report to a text file or similar where you can reference it later. Won't be much trouble then implementing it in Dom3. Plus we don't know what sorts of pretender management features Dom3 may or may not contain, but I know some of those were on the user request lists. The beta testers might know something, but they won't be talking is my guess. Not yet anyway.

Edi

[Gandalf Parker]

I could host with all of the things suggested, but I think thats abit much. A really nice database could be done easier as a wiki. That way its an online interface which could link to a persons pretender design by nation, or by the form selected, or by something like the magic chosen. Or really any feature.

But Id rather see something like this project completed first.
14 May 2004 - Starter Help
No one nibbled on my project to duplicate the old Dom1 starter god files like at using the wayback machine so I may just muddle thru it on my own. Eventually I should have a downloadable set of gods, a starter game with all the nations, and the same game at various stages (turn 10, turn 100). Plus of course an online explanation. The project so far is in
Starter Files


I think some fun newbie suggested gods and settings would move abit quicker than trying to get someone to give up their best designs. IMHO

[Edi]

My idea of the DB is to have something similar to the Dom2 Unit DB, but in a relational DB format. That way the users don't really need to look at the actual DB tables but will be using premade queries to fetch what they need from the DB. If somebody wants to make large scale mods, they can model what things look like by copying the DB and tweaking whatever values they wish and getting the results instantly without needing to fire up the game.

I can construct the DB all right, but designing the queries and their presentation smartly is something I will definitely need help with.

Edi

[Horst F. JENS]

i would be glad to help on this project.

[Edi]

We can get back to that once the DB starts getting under way. I already have a pretty good idea of what I want to put in it and how, it's the queries that will be the biggest problem and they'll only need to be done after the DB is up and running.

I also expect to get help from Kaljamaha, who thanks to his new job will have quite a bit of direct experience with SQL by the end of summer.

But if it's about hosting stuff or making frontends and whatnot, that kind of thing will be most welcome.

Edi