Exploit question

sansanjuan · #1 December 13th, 2009, 11:53 PM

I understand it is considered an exploit to charm the "Bogus boys" and copy their orders (Fire Mage, Attack Commanders, etc) to other commanders (and I won't do it). However, is it considered an exploit to Charm them,leave their orders as is and use the bogus gang in battle as is (never copying their orders to anyone else)?

-ssj

chrispedersen · #2 December 14th, 2009, 12:06 AM

I consider it perfectly ok to use bogus orders on bogus. I think I'm mainstream on that.

Digress · #3 December 14th, 2009, 03:07 AM

I think many players see it, Bogus and company keeping their orders, as "reward for effort". I agree with this point of view.

Copying their orders and using them on other commanders is cheating and something of a game breaker. It goes well beyond "reward for effort".

K · #4 December 14th, 2009, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digress

I think many players see it, Bogus and company keeping their orders, as "reward for effort". I agree with this point of view.

Copying their orders and using them on other commanders is cheating and something of a game breaker. It goes well beyond "reward for effort".

I find that most people think they are a lot more powerful than they really are. To call them a gamebreaker just shows a lack of experience since they basically only affect noobs.

Experienced players have seen enough Attack Rear and Flyers to ever not have units around commanders, and seen too many Earthquakes or other BF spells or just archers to not put some armor on mages.

Bogus orders don't even work on computer players.

Digress · #5 December 14th, 2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K

I find that most people think they are a lot more powerful than they really are. To call them a gamebreaker just shows a lack of experience since they basically only affect noobs.

Experienced players have seen enough Attack Rear and Flyers to ever not have units around commanders, and seen too many Earthquakes or other BF spells or just archers to not put some armor on mages.

Bogus orders don't even work on computer players.

I would have thought being able to kit a bunch of cheapo commanders with bows and script them to "Fire Mage" would be pretty devastating. I haven't seen it happen and haven't ever used the commands, even on the rare occasion I charmed some of Bogus's troll buddies but I really can't see how it wouldn't be unfair.

K · #6 December 14th, 2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digress

Quote:

Originally Posted by K

I find that most people think they are a lot more powerful than they really are. To call them a gamebreaker just shows a lack of experience since they basically only affect noobs.

Experienced players have seen enough Attack Rear and Flyers to ever not have units around commanders, and seen too many Earthquakes or other BF spells or just archers to not put some armor on mages.

Bogus orders don't even work on computer players.

I would have thought being able to kit a bunch of cheapo commanders with bows and script them to "Fire Mage" would be pretty devastating. I haven't seen it happen and haven't ever used the commands, even on the rare occasion I charmed some of Bogus's troll buddies but I really can't see how it wouldn't be unfair.

Try it. At a tactic, it ranks somewhere between "ho-hum" and "meh".

As far as I can tell, anyone who thinks it's awesome hasn't actually tried it against human or computer players. I mean, have you ever noticed how little trouble the computer AI has against Bogus provinces? Can you imagine how useless it is when someone outfits their first thug?

Lingchih · #7 December 14th, 2009, 03:56 AM

I don't see a problem in using the original commanders to keep using their orders. It's usually pretty tough to keep them alive though. You need a lot of high pen charms.

Sombre · #8 December 14th, 2009, 08:53 AM

Three opinions here.

1) It's ok to leave the special orders on Bogus and co but not to copy them.
2) It's fine to copy them.
3) It's not ok to use them even on Bogus and co.

In my experience the majority holds opinion 1. A few vocal people hold opinion 2. Even less people hold opinion 3.

I hold opinion 3 myself.

So I'd stick to following opinion 1 in MP games unless you think it's worth annoying people over.

Foodstamp · #9 December 14th, 2009, 06:32 PM

I'm of Sombre's camp number 2, but it is just opinion and I wouldn't use it in MP just because most other players are in camp 1. If it were used against me, I wouldn't rat the offending player out.

Baalz · #10 December 15th, 2009, 10:38 AM

Meh, they can be worthwhile but they're less 'game breaking' than any of the top tier artifacts or globals - which is an appropriate comparison considering the amount of research, effort, and luck required. Sure, if you're not expecting them and they catch you with your pants down they can be devastating under the right circumstances, but I'd generally rather have the gatestone or the ark or the gift of health if I had a choice. I have to agree with K, most people who ban the orders seem to never have seen them leveraged, they just think they'd be bad in theory. There also seems to be a bit of a negative inclination from some because it 'feels like' this is unintended so its cheating to use it. Well...so are reverse communions (according to JK), along with I'm sure several of the other idiosyncrasies that make up the game.