Germany OOB 16: miscellaneous comments

[Griefbringer]

1.) Artillery unit crews

a.) Unit 232 (10cm NbW Grp) has a crew of 7. According to Mobhack manual, recommended crew size for this type of unit is 8.

b.) Unit 413 (10 cm K18 Btr) has a crew of 99. This is quite high compared to other German Off Map Heavy Artillery batteries, which typically have crew of 36 or 48.

[DRG]

a.) is a GUIDLINE written to give OOB designers a decade and a half ago a number to use when actual data could not be found .It's NOT meant to been the 10 commandments. In this case that mortar----"Each mortar squad consisted of a squad leader, three gunners and three ammunition bearers".....that's 7 which ,since that unit represents two mortar should be 14

b. ) Ancient typo should be 32. Likely copied originally from a naval gun unit

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by DRG

In this case that mortar----"Each mortar squad consisted of a squad leader, three gunners and three ammunition bearers".....that's 7 which ,since that unit represents two mortar should be 14

Thanks for the info! I must admit that I had never seen an organisational chart for this weapon, so that is why I chose to give the Mobhack recommendation as a point of comparison - in any case the listed crew of 7 seemed quite low.

[Griefbringer]

2.) Volksgrenadier unit organisation

a.) Formation 480 (VGren Btln HQ) contains an engineer platoon. However, it seems to me that Volksgrenadier battalions did not contain engineering assets, though Volksgrenadier regiment HQs contained an engineer platoon.

b.) Formation 255 (VGren Zug) has currently three 12 man squads plus two AT teams, for a strenght of at least 40 men. For comparison, the historical TOE strenght seems to have been 33 men, including a medic and two cart/wagon drivers. Maybe a better presentation would be e.g. three squads of 9 men plus one AT team?


For references I used this pretty well-researched website:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/...0to%201945.htm

[DRG]

9 men seems closer and notice they claim the Vgren coy HQ included a sniper group of six men.

I've put this on the list for later.... not now, I'll wait to see who else chimes in as that organization has been 12 men for ages without anyone commenting but I will change it if changing better represents the organization, That said this change is much more involved than simply changing 12 men to 9

I can, however , happily live with the engineers in that HQ----- "close enough"---- note also the authours comment....

like very many things associated with the Wehrmacht and Nazi Germany in late 1944 and early 1945, a great deal of what was intended to be implemented remained purely theoretical

Don

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by DRG

notice they claim the Vgren coy HQ included a sniper group of six men.

Yes, I have been pondering for a while about how that would have worked in practice.

Especially interesting is the idea that they were to be armed with semi-automatic G43 rifles (with telescopic scopes), rather than bolt action sniper rifles. There certainly was quite a number of G43 with telescopic sights produced historically - though I am left wondering what was the level of marksmanship achieved by the men they were issued to.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Griefbringer

though I am left wondering what was the level of marksmanship achieved by the men they were issued to.

They would have picked the best shots in the Coy but at that stage of the war "best" is not what best was in 1939. Semi-auto rifle with a scope they'd fire until something dropped and with the semi auto there was more of a chance of staying generally on target than with a bolt action rifle......those you'd give to guys who really knew what they were doing These are not trained snipers as we know them now but with the telecopic sight they'd do better from further away than the guy with his Iron sighted MP44

What you'd be trying to do with these troops is make as big a nuisance of themselves as they could with their abbreviated training. These are not the troops that marched to Moscow

[DRG]

There are various ways to handle that. I think assigning two snipers per platoon serves the purpose and with a 9 man squad that gets a platoon to 33 men

[Griefbringer]

3.) Ost Kav Sqdn (formation 415) and Ost Kav Trp (formation 416) have experience modifier of 15 and morale modifier of 0. This sounds rather generous compared to Ost Inf formations, which typically have experience modifier of -5 and morale modifier of -5.

[DRG]

Ost Kav = Cossacks (Kosaken)
hence the experience increase