.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $6.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 2: The Ascension Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 1st, 2005, 09:06 PM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,968
Thanks: 24
Thanked 221 Times in 46 Posts
quantum_mechani is on a distinguished road
Default A guide to buffing

I have been thinking that a very important concept for new players to understand, but one that I'm not sure is spelled out anywhere, is 'buffing'. This is a strategy of taking powerful creature with magic (usually a pretender), and scripting it to cast several spells the make it more powerful in melee, before it charges into close combat. These are the kind of spells that experienced players often research first (within the first 2-10 turns depending on the research setting) and then send their pretender to take independent provinces by itself. The usual set of buffs means getting enchantment 1 and alteration 3, but many variations are possible.

Fire: It has two buffs spells, phoenix pyre and fire shield. Phoenix pyre is much to high in the research tree to use during expansion against independents, so for pretender design purposes does not have a lot of impact. Fire shield, on the other hand is very low research, and one of only two early buff spells for harming enemies that you do not have to directly attack. This drastically increases the rate at which you kill enemies, leading to reduced chance of dying and of picking up afflictions. It should also be noted that the damage inflicted by the spell goes up according to the amount of fire magic you have, making it especially important for fire bless pretenders.

Air: It has three buff spells, air shield, mirror image. Air shield is not one of the more important buffs, but if you are facing archers (particularly crossbowmen), and do not have enough buff spells researched to fill up your 5 script slots, it is worth casting. Mirror image can be highly useful, if you count on your luck you might get by with it as your only buff even (given high defense and air magic). It's priority is reduced if you have other defense buffs available, and not very high defense score (15 or less). Mistform remains highly useful no matter what your combatant setup.

Water: It has three buff spells, quickness, breath of winter, water shield. Quickness is one other the most useful buffs, providing +3 attack and defense, allows you to hit twice the number if enemies with your weapon, and giving you a better chance of casting the rest of your buffs before the enemy reaches you. Breath of winter is also very useful. Whether you need the spell depend much on your access to the fire shield spell. If you lack fire shield, you will almost always want to cast breath of winter (and if you posses fire shield, you will almost always want to cast that). If you have both though, the decision gets more complex. The most obvious factor is that a cold climate increases BoW dame, while a hot climate reduces it. Another factor is that BoW can damage friendly troops if they are present in the battle. BoW of winter can be cast underwater while fire shield cannot. There are in general more things that resist BoW than fire shield. The bottom line here is if you have both, you may want to change your script as you go, based on a large number of factors. Water shield rarely influences pretender design, but if you happen to be in a situation where you are fighting underwater, poses water magic and a have a free script slot by all means use it.

Earth: It has five buff spells, stoneskin, ironskin, iron will, summon earth power, and invulnerability. Ironskin is one of the more important buffs, though it diminishes in usefulness if you already have high natural protection. Stoneskin is simply an earlier research (and weaker) version of the above. Iron will is not particularly useful for expansion vs. independents, but it has a niche here and there when fighting other players. Summon earth power is mainly of use when you want to cast invulnerability, or have no access to life drain. It is not used so much in early expansion due to being in an obscure (buff wise) magic school. Invulnerability is also not much of an pretender expansion spell, due to being high research, but it is not without it's uses a bit later on.

Astral*: It has six buff spells, personal luck, body ethereal, resist magic, astral weapon, astral shield. Personal luck is highly useful, making a combatant much more durable. Body ethereal is even more useful in early game expansion, though it's value diminishes as the game proceeds. Resist magic is like iron will, not very useful when expanding, but has a niche later on. Astral weapon is worth a script slot when expanding if you have few paths other than astral, and is even more useful vs. certain opponents later on. Astral shield is all around a good choice no matter what stage of the game you are at.

Death: It has one buff spell, soul vortex: But that one is highly powerful. Too high of research to be used usually vs. independents, it nonetheless can be used devastating effect in the mid and later game

Nature: It has two buff spells, barkskin and personal regeneration. Barkskin is not very useful if you have more than 10 natural protection, or earth magic. If you don't though, and have nothing else to fill the script slot, go ahead and use it. Personal regeneration is much more useful, if you have nature magic and are not lifeless it is almost certainly worthy casting, both for longer lasting combat power and reduced afflictions. It should also be noted that the power increases with the amount of nature magic you have, so nature bless pretenders should particularly rush to this spell.

Blood: It has one buff spell, blood vengeance. Blood vengeance has a number of drawbacks, being extremely high research and requiring a method of supplying blood slaves (usually a flying scout or two). It certainly won't be used against early independents, and it is not really worth putting blood on your pretender for it (you can empower by the time the research is done). Still, it remains a potent late game weapon.

*A note on putting astral on pretenders. Many people will advise that you should not put astral less that 9 or so on your pretender, or risk eminent death from magic duel. The fact is though, there are many cases where you can get around this or lessen it's impact, and there are many positive aspects to make up for your trouble. The first way to take low astral and get away with it is an immortal, duelling will just slow you down, and the enemy is likely to permanently lose mages trying it. The next way is to take good early combatant, and make astral it's only path (like a wyrm), if it gets dueled, so be it. In the meantime it can cause a lot of damage. Third, design your pretender as usual, and if you go to war, keep it moving unpredictably with flying or stealth, and your enemy will waste lots of mage time trying to pin him down.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 1st, 2005, 11:09 PM

Wick Wick is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 262
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wick is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

One thing that distinguishes Breath of Winter (and Soul Vortex) from Fireshield is that they are synergistic with Astral Shield or Eye Shields. The shield renders the attackers harmless while the aura disposes of them.

One buff that didn't make the list is Holy Avenger. It's a Holy 4 spell that does unspecified (as Smite?) damage to anyone that hurts the caster. I don't feel comfortable with it since it's only useful after you get hurt. It might combine well with Mistform but not with the Mirror Image and high defense that usually go with Mistform.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 12:22 AM
Truper's Avatar

Truper Truper is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 566
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Truper is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

Nice work, QM.

I'll just add a couple of how-to examples. If you'd really like to see the power of buffing, try the following:

Play Caelum. Choose a Ghost King for your pretender. Give him 3-4 air, 3-4 earth, 1-2 water. Begin the game by researching Alteration 3. Once you reach it, position your GK at the back of the battle board, have him cast Quickness, Mistform, Ironskin, Mirror Image and attack closest. There are very few indy provinces that can stand up to this. If there are a lot of crossbows in the province, add Air Shield before or after Quickness. Caelum is a good nation to try this with since you get 120 design points from taking cold 3, and the ghosts your pretender occasionally spawns are more effective in the cold since they have a chill aura. Also, researching Alteration 3 gets you closer to Alteration 6, and the infamous False Horror spam - a topic for another tutorial

If you'd prefer a less expensive and somewhat quicker-out-of-the-gate pretender, we can take a look at the Astral Wyrm QM mentioned: one of my favorite pretenders. Play most any nation. Slap a few astral on your Wyrm. I like 3. Research to Alteration 1. Position him fairly close to the front of the battle board, have him cast Personal Luck, and attack closest. This works against most anything except heavy cavalry or large numbers of crossbows. The Wyrm is a nice choice for this sort of pretender since he has regeneration, which reduces the chances of afflictions, and has 2 attacks per turn without needing quickness - and therefore without needing water magic. His attacks do a lot of damage since he has great strength, and are also very poisonous. Once you're out conquering, begin Researching enchantment. When you hit 2, you can add Astral Weapon to his script, and when you hit 3, add Astral Shield.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 07:01 AM
Chazar's Avatar

Chazar Chazar is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: within 200km of Ulm
Posts: 919
Thanks: 27
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Chazar is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

  • Ironskin: is the +3 bonus really worth casting for creatures already having more than 20 protection in total? Does it matter how this 20 points of protection are achieved (i.e. can the spell raise protection by more than 3 points despite already having a end-total of 20 due to other buffs, items, etc.)?
  • Mixed-mode-buffs:What about mixed path buffs? E.g.: I just discovered that my pretender could cast StrengthOfGaia (Conj4) and wonder whether it is a useful spell I did not notice before (I fear that its protection component will destroy my pretenders fire immunity)?
  • Area Buffs for Solos:Is it sensible to script area buffs like Strength of Giants for Solo-Fighters or is there always a better non-area spell at hand?
Sorry if some of this questions are stupid, but they just came to my mind without much thought when thinking about buffs...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 09:32 AM
Boron's Avatar

Boron Boron is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bavaria , Germany
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Boron is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

Maybe we should only discuss based upon Zen's mods since almost nobody plays MP nowadays without these mods anymore.
There are now some important changes, like soul vortex is now so expensive that it is probably rarely used with a SC anymore. Then the GK is nerfed a bit, while other Chassis like the Father of Serpents are now better SCs .

If you are so kind you could base your further posts solely upon Zen's mods and not upon vanilla, QM
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 09:46 AM
Endoperez's Avatar

Endoperez Endoperez is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Eastern Finland
Posts: 7,110
Thanks: 145
Thanked 153 Times in 101 Posts
Endoperez is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

If someone needs guide to buffing, they are new to multiplayer. That probably means they aren't yet playing with Zen's mods. Also, if someone has just arrived to this forum, they probably don't yet know about Zen's mods. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think people at Quarter to Three use Zen's mods much.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 01:52 PM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,968
Thanks: 24
Thanked 221 Times in 46 Posts
quantum_mechani is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

Quote:
Chazar said:
  • Ironskin: is the +3 bonus really worth casting for creatures already having more than 20 protection in total? Does it matter how this 20 points of protection are achieved (i.e. can the spell raise protection by more than 3 points despite already having a end-total of 20 due to other buffs, items, etc.)?
  • Mixed-mode-buffs:What about mixed path buffs? E.g.: I just discovered that my pretender could cast StrengthOfGaia (Conj4) and wonder whether it is a useful spell I did not notice before (I fear that its protection component will destroy my pretenders fire immunity)?
  • Area Buffs for Solos:Is it sensible to script area buffs like Strength of Giants for Solo-Fighters or is there always a better non-area spell at hand?
Sorry if some of this questions are stupid, but they just came to my mind without much thought when thinking about buffs...
Ironskin past 20 prot is another of those that is likely worth it if you have a free slot, but there are higher priority things. Strength of gaia is certainly often useful. Particularly underwater where you don't have to worry very much about fire. Strength of giants is iffy, but again, with nothing else to fill the slot you might consider it.

I consider this topic mostly mod-neutral, the only changed buff I can think of is soul vortex, and what I said about it still applies.

As for buffs/semi-buffs I missed (holy avenger, eagle eyes, aim), they do not for the most part fit into super combatant strategies, which is what I'm trying to clear up. Also note that I did not say anything about the various elemental resistance spells, it is fairly obvious that you should use them if you expect to face that kind of magic.

The chill aura is fatigue damage only. I do not know the exact damage of BoW, but as a rough guide, in a cold climate it might kill a 10HP troop in one turn, in warmer climate they could survive maybe three or so turns.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 02:10 PM

FrankTrollman FrankTrollman is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 559
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
FrankTrollman is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

I would like to point out that I personally play multiplayer without Zen's Mods. I agree and disagree with Zen's choices and rebalances in roughly equal measure, thereby making the addition of that mod a complete waste of time on my part.

-Frank
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 05:53 PM

The Panther The Panther is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,019
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Panther is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

Quote:
Truper said:
If you'd prefer a less expensive and somewhat quicker-out-of-the-gate pretender, we can take a look at the Astral Wyrm QM mentioned: one of my favorite pretenders. Play most any nation. Slap a few astral on your Wyrm. I like 3. Research to Alteration 1. Position him fairly close to the front of the battle board, have him cast Personal Luck, and attack closest. This works against most anything except heavy cavalry or large numbers of crossbows. The Wyrm is a nice choice for this sort of pretender since he has regeneration, which reduces the chances of afflictions, and has 2 attacks per turn without needing quickness - and therefore without needing water magic. His attacks do a lot of damage since he has great strength, and are also very poisonous. Once you're out conquering, begin Researching enchantment. When you hit 2, you can add Astral Weapon to his script, and when you hit 3, add Astral Shield.
Hey! Did you steal this from me?

I must agree that the astral wyrm is extremely powerful, most especially with Broken Empire Ermor (who has the national spell 'Body Etheral' which gives mundane troops only a 25% chance of actually hitting your wyrm). My son discovered this in the first King of the Hill battle. You do not need anything else to use this beast attacking blind on Turn 1 against 9 level indies! For other nations, the alteration 1 research and personal luck is necessary against 9 level indies.

I would only quibble with one thing here, you need to go to Astral 4 on your wyrm if at all possible, for this allows your sacred mages to get an additional point of magic resistance when blessed. It also helps a lot with the dueling later on.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 2nd, 2005, 06:52 PM
Truper's Avatar

Truper Truper is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 566
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Truper is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A guide to buffing

Quote:
The Panther said:
Hey! Did you steal this from me?
Not unless you've been playing since Dom1
Actually, I stole it from Alex Poger from some discussions on usenet years ago.

Quote:
I would only quibble with one thing here, you need to go to Astral 4 on your wyrm if at all possible, for this allows your sacred mages to get an additional point of magic resistance when blessed. It also helps a lot with the dueling later on.
The reason I often end up with only Astral 3 is that moving from 3 to 4 costs 32 points - nearly enough for a scale. I don't think a single point of MR is worth all that much - if you even have sacred mages. Astral 4 would help with dueling, but not enough to matter that much, unless you are in a position to provide communicants. One of the main attractions of the Astral Wyrm is that he's cheap, as well as effective. He's also a nice way to get into the water, which is otherwise tough to do early - especially if you can forge him a Horror Helmet
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.