T'ien C'hi help

[HotNifeThruButr]

I just recently (2 days ago) got the full Version of Ascension Wars

I've been trying to learn how to play the Tien chi race, since they seem to be very versatile. Anyways, this is what I do with T'ien C'hi, if anyone could offer advice on to make this tactic better, please do.

I always create Generals with armies that have 1 Imperial Footman (the kind with the shield) for every two composite bow archers (non-imperial). The heavily armored footmen with good morale often don't break except against heavy cavalry, and while they hold and attack, my archers are shooting at any advancing enemies they see. The problem with this that I'm neglecting some troops in the Chinese, ahem, Tien Chi arsenal. Imperial Archers have 1 precision more than normal ones. Does 1 prec justify having to pay 13G 17R instead of 10G 9R per archer? I know I'm not going to care if they have heavy armor, since my imperial footmen will be tanking for them. Also, the morale "bonus" will cause them to sustain higher casualties if the enemy managed to breakthrough the footies, which is a bad thing.

Another unit I've been neglecting is the Imperial Guard. They have better morale (right?) than imperial footmen, but since they wield katanas, ahem, falchions, they can't repel as well as spear-wielding footmen. They're also more expensive. Would repel save enough lives that it's better to buy footmen than guards?

A third unit I've been neglecting are the horsemen. A close look at the Horseman's arsenal tells me that they're crap. But the Heavy Horseman, on the other hand, have full scale mail, bucklers, and Composite bows (8 natural precision, though), lances, and spears. What I'm thinking is that they suck at shooting, so that part doesn't matter, but when they've used up their lance, they just become glorified imperial footmen without shields, and I can get 2-3 imperial ones for the same cost. Imperial Horsemen, the Last type that I don't use have no bows (not that they'd be able to use them well), but attack with falchions, round shields, and lances. I consider the falchion a worse weapon than the spear, since repelling is sexy. However, they don't break as much as heavy horsemen. All in all, imperial horsemen don't seem as good as heavy horsemen, but for a heavier price. What really ticks me off is that none of the three have "Hoof," which the heavy cavalry of almost every other race have, and they shoot with 9 precision (counting the + 1 composite bows give.) Should I bother with horsemen?

A third kind of unit I'm curious about are Celestial units. Until the Last half hour, I thought the only celestial units were celestial soldiers, demon of heavenly fires, and demon of heavenly rivers. When I took Earth magic with my Pretender, I found out that there were Celestial Servants. So, are there only those four, or are there other Celestials? The only ones I've experimented with right now are Celestial Soldiers, the horsey dudes. Does their minotaur-like stats justify spending 4 air gems per soldier? What about Celestial Servants, aka pig dudes? I don't play Spring and Autumn, since it is incredibly limited in unit choices, and I like my high morale imperials, but do demons set off that glaring weakness? Are there only Demons of Heavenly Rivers and Fires or are there more? I don't like having to create Celestial Masters to make 1 demon a turn (250 gold a man, then there are heavy gem costs for the demons themselves).

On a non-T'ien C'hi topic, does anyone like to recruit an assload of Hoburg Crossbowmen? They're cheap, yet attack as well as any other crossbowman. The only problem is their health, but if you've got imperial footmen, that's not much of a problem. Too bad I can't find very many Burgmeister provinces

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Another unit I've been neglecting is the Imperial Guard. They have better morale (right?) than imperial footmen, but since they wield katanas, ahem, falchions, they can't repel as well as spear-wielding footmen. They're also more expensive. Would repel save enough lives that it's better to buy footmen than guards?

I would say that they are most likely actually Falchions, since katanas are japanese, and T'Ien Chi is definetly chinese. As for the choice, the spears have a low damage of 3 while the falchions have a very high damage of 7. You will find that the falchions are much more likely to penetrate the armor of any heavy infantry you come across.

I consider the falchion a worse weapon than the spear, since repelling is sexy.

Repel is only useful if your opponents have low morale. Most troops you will face will have better than 10 morale, so it won't matter as much there.

So, are there only those four, or are there other Celestials?

That's all there is.

The only ones I've experimented with right now are Celestial Soldiers, the horsey dudes. Does their minotaur-like stats justify spending 4 air gems per soldier?

Celestial soldiers are very nice troops, and can be very tough to kill. With some kind of moderate bless effect, they can become downright nasty.

I don't like having to create Celestial Masters to make 1 demon a turn (250 gold a man, then there are heavy gem costs for the demons themselves).

Any fire 1 astral 1, or water 1 astral 1 mage can summon the two types of demons. This means that the masters of the five elements with a pick in astral can summon them, as can masters of the way with an astral pick.

[Firebreath]

I'm in a similar situation to you, so I'll just add the little that I know.

Composite bows + footpads
***
Composite bows are non armour piercing (I think), so if you play against ulm, for example, they won't do much damage in the first 3 rounds, and then afterwards they'll hurt your footmen more than the enemy .Since you have imperial crossbows, that isn't a problem.

Ordinary/Imperial archers
***
Ordinary ones are much cheaper, so normally better. Except, of course, if you end up in an archery duel with heavily armed archers. They are also much, much worse if the enemy gets through or round (or over) your front ranks

Cavalry
***
Against your standard enemy forces, no cavarly is just fine. However, so types of army are succeptibly much weaker without a flanking cover (something on your flanks to protect you from enemy flanking attacks). You cant always rely on melee infantry to do this as they'll most likely head for the center scrap, leaving their position empty. However, the horse archers are relatively good for this, as they'll stay where they are (since they're firing their bows) and they'll put up a good fight if attacked.

Heavy cavalry
***
Even if you're planning on a defensive tactic, it's worth having a few heavies on 'attack rear', occasionally they'll go straight to the enemy commanders and finish the battle before it started

Enemy fliers
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Early on they're quite rare, though a few draconians or devils on 'hold and attack archers' will mess up your nice plans

Celestials
***
I don't know much about them. The pigs didn't seem to add any tactical element, and my other computer foes were already vanquished by the time I had enough crystals to conjure anything else

[HotNifeThruButr]

Thanks Dice, but about the celestials, I'd much rather pay 250 for a mage that I know can summon demons of heavenly garbage (ironically, celestial masters don't have enough air magic to summon celestial soldiers, unless they get an air pick, so only my pretender will do that. At least they summon in bulk) than try for a 1:7 chance of getting the right pick with a master of the way.

BTW, when your units play the attack animation while the enemy attacked them, that's indicates a repel, right? Does it mean an attempted repel (passes defense/attack check) or a succeeded one (passes morale check)?

[HotNifeThruButr]

Thanks Dice, but about the celestials, I'd much rather pay 250 for a mage that I know can summon demons of heavenly garbage (ironically, celestial masters don't have enough air magic to summon celestial soldiers, unless they get an air pick, so only my pretender will do that. At least they summon in bulk) than try for a 1:7 chance of getting the right pick with a master of the way.

BTW, when your units play the attack animation while the enemy attacked them, that's indicates a repel, right? Does it mean an attempted repel (passes defense/attack check) or a succeeded one (passes morale check)?

[HotNifeThruButr]

Thanks Dice, but about the celestials, I'd much rather pay 250 for a mage that I know can summon demons of heavenly garbage (ironically, celestial masters don't have enough air magic to summon celestial soldiers, unless they get an air pick, so only my pretender will do that. At least they summon in bulk) than try for a 1:7 chance of getting the right pick with a master of the way.

BTW, when your units play the attack animation while the enemy attacked them, that's indicates a repel, right? Does it mean an attempted repel (passes defense/attack check) or a succeeded one (passes morale check)?

Edit: triple post... what the crap? How do I delete Posts?

Edit 2: I may just be accustomed to the kick *** infantry of Ulm from the demo, but Footmen of all types seem pretty puny. They seem to get wasted by even New Era Satry Hoplites

Edit 3: I thought Falchions were European and the big broad swords you see in the movies/books were scimitars.

[ April 11, 2004, 06:41: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]