Dom-III discussion at GalCiv

WraithLord · #1 August 29th, 2006, 11:10 AM

Check this out, publishers of Gal-Civ II post about dom III going gold (at http://www.galciv2.com/, and http://forums.galciv2.com/?AID=128349 ).

There's something symbolic in that, as IMO those are the best publishers for quality strat. games (stardock and shrapnel).

If you are members of this forum, you may want to throw in a few good words on dominions

.

DominionsFan · #2 August 29th, 2006, 11:33 AM

..and you can see posts like this in that forum:

"Master of Magic has better graphics, never cost 55$, and while the interface is somewhat behind the curve (it's at least 10-15 years old) it's still a lot more accessible and powerful than what I encountered when I tried to play the Dominions 2 demo a few months ago."

what can I say? no comment.

*edit*. I was just reading more posts. It seems that most of the Galciv2 people are complaining about the Doms 2. AI.
Example:

"I would find it hard to believe that there is a large crossover between GC2 fans and Dom2/3 fans.

Dom is basically MP only since the AI has always sucked. More because of all the useless junk they keep on throwing in with little mind to balance or entertainment.

Then there's the price tag... completely unreasonable for a MP only niche game in my opinion, but hey, it's their baby.

That said I like the developers at Illwinter, and I like the Dom community, I just don't think any of them really care about SP gaming (as far as Dom is concerned). "

Well this is funny, because the Galciv2. AI wasnt that good at all, and it can be exploited easily. I dont know whats going on now, because I havent touched Galciv2 for a couple of months now, some patches maybe upgraded the AI.

The other thing is that I still play Dominions 2 a lot, but I stopped to play Galciv2. I think this is the best proof that which is the better game, AI or not.

Nerfix · #3 August 29th, 2006, 12:49 PM

MoM has better graphics? O_o What and odd claim, not that it really does matter.

Some of their points are valid, I think. Namely the AI concern, but since I am such a poor player the sure and safe "Lots of AI's gang on me" was good enough to keep me excited.

Apparently Dom 2 did sell for $55 and didn't Dom 3 break the pre-order records? Their economic asses of the situation is off if you ask me.

Gandalf Parker · #4 August 29th, 2006, 01:34 PM

The GalCiv crowd will always be able to complain about other games AIs. Brad was famous in AI discussion circles before GalCiv was redone to a windows version and was often mentioned in any AI paper. I snatched it up when I heard that Brad had decided that Windows XP had advanced enough to support real AI.

But to be truthful, Ive hardly played it at all. I was very disappointed. I should probably download his new version though and check it out again.

Gandalf Parker

WraithLord · #5 August 29th, 2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

DominionsFAN said:
..and you can see posts like this in that forum:

"Master of Magic has better graphics, never cost 55$, and while the interface is somewhat behind the curve (it's at least 10-15 years old) it's still a lot more accessible and powerful than what I encountered when I tried to play the Dominions 2 demo a few months ago."

what can I say? no comment.

*edit*. I was just reading more posts. It seems that most of the Galciv2 people are complaining about the Doms 2. AI.
Example:

First claim is plain outrageous.

As to AI, no surprise there as GC-II has amazingly powerful AI. Dominions forte isn't it's AI or fgx, rather than it's depth, replaybility and (for me) charm.

Morkilus · #6 August 29th, 2006, 04:54 PM

I've run across some game-breaking retardedness in the GC2 campaign AI, such as enemy ships being built without weapons. I suppose it might be worth another shot with the update, but I don't really see the point when I can do other stuff that I know is fun.

Archonsod · #7 August 29th, 2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Morkilus said:
I've run across some game-breaking retardedness in the GC2 campaign AI, such as enemy ships being built without weapons.

That's not retarded. The idea is to upgrade the design to one with weapons as soon as they become available . In the meantime, the ship will prevent you from invading a planet with a transport, unless you send warships in.I've even seen the AI build most of their fleet weaponless, only to upgrade when my ships were about to attack (thus rendering my carefully chosen armour useless against the lasers I never knew they had...).

Thing is, Dominions 2 doesn't really need a decent AI to make the game playable (and that's from someone who prefers single player over multiplayer). Remove the AI opponents from Dominions and you still have an intricate, detailed and fun game which plays differently everytime. Remove the AI from Gal Civ, and you no longer have a game. It's all about focus - Dominions' strength lies in it's depth and complexity. Gal Civ focuses more on the competition.

Tyrant · #8 August 30th, 2006, 03:01 AM

Interesting that they brought up MoM. When i'm proselatizing for DomII I always try to explain it as "Masters of Magic meets VGAP," but so far not one single person has known what i was talking about. I loved MoM, and always hoped they'd do an MP sequel. They didn't, but Illwinter stepped up to the plate and hit a homer.

As for he AI, <shrug>, who cares? Nearly all 'puter strategy games are SP. If they have MP at all it's an afterthought pasted onto a game system that's ill suited for it. Often games last hundreds of turns, or one strategy is clearly superior. Dom is a rare strategy game that's made for MP from the ground up. If i want to play an SP games and "solve" AIs there are hundreds to choose from. Dom is the best strategic MP game i've found by far, and I'd buy Dom3 even if it didn't have an AI at all.

That said, I'm confidently hoping the new AI will be better :>. I'm also pretty confident that after X games i will be able to crush it reliably.

DominionsFan · #9 August 29th, 2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

WraithLord said:

Quote:

DominionsFAN said:
..and you can see posts like this in that forum:

"Master of Magic has better graphics, never cost 55$, and while the interface is somewhat behind the curve (it's at least 10-15 years old) it's still a lot more accessible and powerful than what I encountered when I tried to play the Dominions 2 demo a few months ago."

what can I say? no comment.

*edit*. I was just reading more posts. It seems that most of the Galciv2 people are complaining about the Doms 2. AI.
Example:

First claim is plain outrageous.

As to AI, no surprise there as GC-II has amazingly powerful AI. Dominions forte isn't it's AI or fgx, rather than it's depth, replaybility and (for me) charm.

Well I dont agree Wraith. Firstly, Galciv2 is a SP only game, so they focus on AIs. Secondly their so called AI is not working that good. I remember that I was playing Galciv 2. after like 2 patches, and the AI sucked still. It wasnt hard to beat 5 AIs on the hardest settings. The Galciv2 AIs are not bad, I wouldnt dare to say that, but surely not hard to beat for a human player. Now I tell you something more. I had harder times to win against the Doms 2. AIs then against the Galciv2 AIs. There were some Dom2 SP games for me, when I had a 4+ front war against the AIs and I lost. I never lost a single SP game in Galciv2. Why? Mainly because of diplomacy. Its fairly easy to turn an AI to your side and make an alliance. From that point you cant loose a game. Maybe this has been changed after more patches, but I seriously doubt that I would loose a Galciv2 game even now.

Well the Doms2 AI wasnt perfect, but it was good enough for the new players to practice before they play online.
As we know the Doms 3. AI will be better. I am also pretty sure that IW will upgrade the Doms 3. AI if it will be needed.

All in all, Im pretty disappointed that the Galciv2 players are bashing Doms 2. like this. Dominions 2. is much more complex then Galciv2. Thus its much harder to write an AI for Doms2, since the comp player must take care of many more different things. Oddly they forgot to mention this.

Annette · #10 August 29th, 2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

All in all, Im pretty disappointed that the Galciv2 players are bashing Doms 2. like this.

Don't worry too much about that. Any discussion is good discussion, and we're very appreciative that Brad started a thread about Dom 3 on his forums. He's a class-act. We hope those of you who haven't played GalCiv 2 will give it a go.