Red Army = most effective force !

[Alpha]

So, while researching, testing my scens, playing and comparing the OOBs i came to the conclusing, that the most dangerous opponent in the period about 1970 - 90 is the red army.

Quantity + quality will crush most opponents.

Other countries like the UK, Chechoslowakia and DDR (GDR) comes on the next places. Also the swiss army and the US marines are impressive. But they are quite small and would´t play a large role in a massive west-east conflict in Europe in above time period.

So do you think the game reflects reality quite good ?
I don´t considered air + marine forces of course, since this game is about the ground forces mainly.

[pdoktar]

US Marines is a small force.. wow. Think about the Marines role in the Pacific against Japan in WW2. So in a east-west conflict Marines would certainly play a huge role invading and protecting coasts and bases, islands (vital to SOSUS and aircrafts)and adding flexibility to theater command.

[Alpha]

pdoktar said:
US Marines is a small force.. wow. Think about the Marines role in the Pacific against Japan in WW2. So in a east-west conflict Marines would certainly play a huge role invading and protecting coasts and bases, islands (vital to SOSUS and aircrafts)and adding flexibility to theater command.

I´m talking about ETO. I read documents saying about 3000 US marines would be available to europe in the 80ties. Of course they are of good use, but in the huge sceme of things a "smalL" factor.

[Double_Deuce]

Alpha said:
So, while researching, testing my scens, playing and comparing the OOBs i came to the conclusing, that the most dangerous opponent in the period about 1970 - 90 is the red army.

Quantity + quality will crush most opponents.

Yes and No. Give me M60A3's with Thermal sights and a little bit of smoke to drop on the battlefield and I'll kill red units all day without many losses, except maybe to their artillery.

Soviet doctrine of the late 70's called for covering the battlefield in smoke so they could get in close and overwhelm us with numbers. By the early 80's we were counting on it so we could use the blanket of smoke against them since by then we could see through the smoke with our TTS sights and pick them off before they could get close enough to see us.

[narwan]

Double Deuce is absolutely right. While the red army MAY have a small edge in the seventies, prior to the appearance of thermals and NATO's 120mm guns, once these do make an appearance the tables are turned. Thermals dominate.

Also the squad size of most of the red armies mech and motorized troops is too small to be able to stay in the fight long enough. The small size and mediocre experience/morale of these units gives them far less combat power over a whole game than what their pure weapon stats etc seem to say.

Narwan

[Mobhack]

Absolutely agreed - that tiny window in the early 70s would have been the best spot for the Soviets to try for WW3. Only the chieftain, of the NATO tanks, really could deal with these with its 120mm gun.

The problem of course was low training, and poor low-level tactics. (use them under AI control to simulate such )

Once TI sights and the XM1, Leo2 and Chally 1 arrive - it is just target practice time (esp if there is smoke about!). But even before then - liquidating the APCs at longer ranges to cause mass unhappiness in the accompanying tanks is a good tactic.

Me - I like an early 70s NATO army as a challenging fight (pre-TI sights and super MBT, and no MLRS in other words) vs USSR, allowing them t-72 and T-64 and BMP, etc.

As USSR - I like 1969-70 the best (T-64s, BMP, BRDM-sagger, sagger teams, SA-7, Gecko!!, Shilka!! (SA-6 Gainful in 70 ).

1966 on is also quite good as the USSR - SA-7 shoulder SAM (and not too much NATO EW), shilkas as well!, plus the BMP-1, and T-62s, BRDM-sagger vs some chieftains (but only in 67) and USA has M60A1, FGR has Leo 1 etc, marders in 1970 (which can be a bit of a problem for BTR and BMP).

Cheers
Andy

[baggypants]

Post deleted by baggypants

[Alpha]

baggypants said:

Many analysis of the period question if Czech troops could be used in a general attack on western Europe since they were more trained and deployed to prevent civil war and their colder relationship with the USSR since the crushing of the uprising in the 60's. It was also generally felt that all the Warsaw pact troops could not be deployed into western Europe without risking 'instability' in the USSR aligned nations of eastern Europe.

STASI (DDR Secret Service) papers analysis and Nato documents show that it was quite shure that the WP forces would fight reliable together with the soviets. Except Rumania. DDR,Poland...were all taken into account for the drive to the french atlantic coast
Chechz, Hungaria for the southern front

[wulfir]

I like to play against the Soviets/Russians.
In game terms I think they are probably the most dangerous opponent - any year.

Especially the combination of cheap scouts and BM-22s with ammo supply are difficult to combat - thermals are good but even the fastest tanks have trouble avoiding the BM-22 barrages. The only really effective solution I've found has been to use own CM armed systems and plenty of air...

[loktarr]

Wasn't the AI designed to play USSR?
It could be an explanation...