Horror Marking as a battle tactic for a non-Blood nation

[TwoBits]

So how effective is Horror Mark and/or Astral Geyser in rendering an enemy unit hors-de-combat if you yourself have no way of summoning Horrors (you're Astral only, no Blood)?

(Yeah, yeah, not very subtle regarding a certain MP game I'm in at the moment, but it's supposed to be a learning experience anyway, so hey, I'm trying to learn! )

I did a search of the Forum, and found a few old threads from years back. Apparently back in '06 there was a nerf to horror action? What's the current state of Horror-Marking?

Back then, someone speculated that there were different "tiers" of Horror Marking (in this thread, in which KO also talked about a nerf: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...ht=Horror+Mark ), in that 'regular' horror marking, via the spell of the same name, didn't really achieve much, even if a target was hit numerous times. But that casting Astral Geyser, or using certain magic items (Kurgi stuff, etc.), could somehow make things worse by an order of magnitude.

But I think there was a guy back in '07 (OK, found that thread here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...hlight=Horrors ) who complained that getting his pretender horror marked pretty much ruined his whole Dominions experience! Damn, now that's what I'm talking about (as I'd certainly like to ruin someone's experience right about now )! Is that level of incapacitation still possible, and if so, how?

All that was olden days speculation though. What're the latest thoughts on the matter? Can you mark up a unit enough to where it gets visited by Doom Horrors every other turn? If so, how much marking are we talking about?

Is the difference between Horror Mark and Astral Geyser (and say, using certain magic items, or being hit by horrors in combat) just a matter of number/level (meaning, 1 Astral Geyser = 2 Horror Mark spells), or is there something else going on?

I'm just wondering if it's worth my time trying to make this a strategy, or would I just be wasting my mages' energy (and perhaps their lives)?

[Alpine Joe]

I'm in a game now where my pretender has been badly horror marked by some pure astral mages. Its gotten to the point where he now fights a doom horror every turn (winning most of the time). Is it inconvenient? Yes. Sure my pretender isn't dead, but his MR is so high that that is the only thing astral mages can do to him. i sure wish they had decided to spam soul slay instead.

[thejeff]

In detail, I don't know.
But for practical experience, I had a prophet sufficiently marked in one SP battle that he attracted a Horror (not a Doom Horror) within a couple turns.

It probably works best in the early game. Most SC pretenders won't be kitted out
to deal with even regular horrors early on
If nothing else, it's a good psychological weapon. Is your enemy really willing to keep sending his pretender to get Horror Marked again and again? If it doesn't get him killed right away, but he gets pulled from the field that's probably good enough...

[chrispedersen]

Playing as Rlyeh against blood nations I will routinely have one maged tasked with casting nothing but horror mark.

The intent is more as a defensive measure should he cast horrors.
I wouldn't call it a stellar technique..But my opponent never cast horrors....

[Kuritza]

Almost worthless in my experience.
Perhaps if you spam horror mark by 10+ mages for 10+ turns... but then you could have killed your enemy with soul slay instead (or stellar cascades, cough). No MR is high enough to be 100% fail-safe.
Not that I ever used horror marking... but I had it used against me a few times. With absolutely no bad consequences for me.

[Tolkien]

Horrormarking has a niche use. If you're up against blood nations spamming horrors or mass sabbath casting hell power, yes, spamming it a big yes. I mean horrors are also infinitely annoying if you get a high enough horror mark that horrors actually start attacking the commanders. Astral geyser spammed properly is useful that way.

But generally, horror marking more of a defense against horrors should they be used by a blood nation, and most assuredly an offensive spell if you are the blood nation.

[thejeff]

As I suggested above it's a very nice early counter to an SC pretender. It's Thaum 1, so easily reachable within a few turns of being attacked, even if you didn't have it already.
And pretender SCs in the first year or two don't usually have the gear researched or forged to handle even regular horrors.

Other astral counters are much higher research or ineffective against SCs.

It's like curse. Sure, it won't kill you right away, but it's a good deterrent. And unlike curse, it does get worse with more castings. 4-5 mages scripted to 5xHorror Mark, retreat with enough chaff to delay.

Again, mid-late game there are better options and being Horror marked isn't so deadly, but early on it's scary.

[Tolkien]

Yeah, I completely agree. Horror marking and curse are those spells that just have to be used against SCs, or at least, to reduce their effectiveness. Early game, it's nasty, but once you get even adequate gear, it loses alot of effectiveness (barring doom horrors, those are just crazy). For example, I was spamming horrors in one LA game against an invading Utgard. The horrors I summoned on the battlefield just died rather quickly against his werewolf or two with frost brands. I mean, frost brands! But yes, it's still useful, just not really that useful.

[atul]

The thing about horror marks is that once they attract a horror that guy usually has an attack that increases the level of horror marking, in turn increasing the amount (and kind) of attracted horrors even if the first one is killed. Gets annoying really fast.

Though, given that the threat you face has defence in high 20s, don't know how many lesser horrors at least manage to hit him. So marking might be of questionable utility.

Or then again, not.

;p

[PsiSoldier]

It also depends on your enemies magic path's and strength. Ive had pretenders horror marked to the point where they were attacked by a doom horror every turn but it was easily handled with Gifts from Heaven which took the horror out on the first turn every time except for the few occasions where the Doom horror brought several other horrors with it but even then it was handled easily enough.

I'd say that a commander without the ability to cast a really high damage spell like that with aqueduct accuracy would be in trouble though. *Granted I was wishing every turn under Arcane Corruption so I was kind of increasing my chances of being attacked too haha* I actually never stopped casting Wish so I'm not sure if I'd have still been attacked by Doom Horrors every turn even without casting but I'm guessing I would have.

But the whole point is that if your enemy has spells capable of taking out the horrors like Incinerate or Frozen Heart or Gifts from Heaven for Doom Horrors then the whole effect of it is lost anyways since it doesn't matter how often they are attacked.