Thugging Out Vampire Counts? (LA Ulm)

[DigSen]

Hey all.
I've so far only dared to play SP, I'm still trying to find a nation I really like. Right now I'm digging LA Ulm, and I'm getting better at jump-starting my blood-economy - but once I've got the Counts, how can I use them for combat?

I understand about spamming Raise Skeletons, and using Summon Lammashtas in suicide runs, but shouldn't it be possible to outfit my Counts with cheap gear and get them to mix it up on the front lines?

I have a few big questions, I guess (but any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!):

• Is it worth hanging on to their innate Life Drain attack, or will they get more mileage out of a Fire Brand?
  
• If they're going to be thugs, is it okay to slap encumbering armor on them, or should I find cheap Protection somewhere else?
  
• Is it potentially worth it to give Skull Staffs to a few, have them cast Soul Vortex, and then fly in to mix it up?
  
• And, even with five or six thugged out Counts, will I still need some mortal troops to back them up? Or will they ever be able to handle reasonable enemy opposition by themselves?

Alternatively, am I barking up the wrong tree entirely? Should I have my Counts focus on blood-hunting and build up massive demon armies instead?

[Bwaha]

The one item that I would give them is a amulet of magic resistance. There's just so many ways to banish or destroy undead. And I think its risky to put a bunch of stuff on undead units.

[rdonj]

I'm not actually familiar with the vampire counts, but to my knowledge no undead gains encumbrance from armor. So you can put whatever you want on them encumbrance-wise. It will just make them move slower (if they fly this doesn't matter, if you want them casting spells they still gain additional encumbrance for spellcasting from heavy armor so you want to avoid it).

Also generally speaking I don't think it would be worth it to give them a skull staff to cast soul vortex. If you want to give them the ability to cast soul vortex, you would be better off using the +d hat. But that is probably a bit too expensive for what they're worth.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by rdonj

Also generally speaking I don't think it would be worth it to give them a skull staff to cast soul vortex. If you want to give them the ability to cast soul vortex, you would be better off using the +d hat. But that is probably a bit too expensive for what they're worth.

They're immortal, so you want to avoid losing gear, especially expensive gear like a skull hat. I'd probably go with giving them death gems (1 apiece if you can get a scout in the same province to resupply).

Unless of course you thug them out sufficiently that they don't get killed at all.

-Max

[licker]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

They're immortal, so you want to avoid losing gear, especially expensive gear like a skull hat. I'd probably go with giving them death gems (1 apiece if you can get a scout in the same province to resupply).

Unless of course you thug them out sufficiently that they don't get killed at all.

-Max

thugging them out is rather trivial at const4 and with the standard LAUlm paths (SFEAD), with hammers and forge bonus its also pretty cheap to toss them luck pendants or various shields.

Of course you will be much more effective if you know what you're fighting before you start just throwing them around. Counts with full kit (especially horror helm, luck, some chaff control shield...) can wipe out pretty much any PD, and most smaller armies, so you can use them offensively with little drawback, unless you blunder into a real army with them.

Useing them in support of one of your real armies is also quite workable, and then you don't even care as much if they die (in or out of dominion) as long as you figure to win, their gear will get picked up by your other commanders (well assuming you have enough slots on your other commanders...).

Putting all kinds of killer buffs on them just seems a tad wasteful when you could otherwise use your communion to acutally go about killing the enemy with all the possible path combinations LAulm can get with their diverse s? mages (though they are all low level magic, but some boosters and a big communion since blood and astral are on almost all your mages isn't hard to pull off).

Iron Blizard is just too cheap to spam the crap out of in a reverse communion, and throwing 30+ ap magic darts around the battlefield is going to do a number on just about any kind of army you are facing.

If you are facing SCs/thugs then you communion and spam paralyze, ...

The counts can handle the chaff control pretty well, and wouldn't be that useful against SCs/thugs other than to engage them and keep them still for your communion to tear down.

By the way, LAUlm really needs to set up a blood stone forger ASAP, you will not be disappointed with the results

[rdonj]

I always forget that you can use gems to boost paths like that. I agree that that is a much better method.

[Trumanator]

I think that the life drain stays no matter what equipment you give them. Also, undead have 0 encumbrance, so you can put whatever armor you like on them without worries. They still get casting enc. though, so don't forget about that. AMA are a good investment, as are any brands, Charcoal,Vine, GG, or Eye shields. When I was playing around with them I actually gave them Jade Armor for the quickening, but since I was playing against Ry'leh they got paralyzed and killed fast, doesn't mean the armor's bad though. Horror Helms could also be useful, since any innate death magic increases the fear effect.

[thejeff]

Counts can work well getting buffed as communion slaves. You just need a few other mages with Astral & other buffing paths.

Even with just Astral you can give them personal luck and MR. Their own death can give them Soul Vortex.

Just have the masters retreat (or attack if they're also Counts) after buffing the slaves.

[Trumanator]

Do counts get Astral? If they don't, then I dunno if Ulm gets anyone with combo S and E paths for the matrices.

[thejeff]

Counts have blood. They can use Sabbath Slave, which works with Communion.
Give them a couple slaves to cast & reduce fatigue. Maybe have one cast Reinvigoration after buffing.