SCs and Afflictions

[Endovior]

Forgive me in advance if this has been answered elsewhere; I'm still kinda new at this.

After playing around to the point where I can beat the AI on Easy, I've played a few games against Normal, and in looking for more efficient strategies, I've been trying out SC Pretenders instead of the back-row mage-types I've been using thus far. Although I'm impressed with the power to casually demolish most indie provinces and AI chaff hordes, I invariably wind up acquiring a few nasty afflictions along the way, from annoyances like Lame and Eye Loss to more serious problems like Mute. I've tried a few more resilient Pretenders like the Wyrm, but still find that some lucky blow winds up inflicting a nasty and permanent disability on my Pretender, either halting or slowing my expansion plans as I need to rework my plans.

It seems that this would be an issue with all types of SCs; and barring such things as Gift of Health (which I'd assume that you can't always get in MP) and the Chalice (again, not always available), then unless you're of a race that naturally grants healers, or somehow luck into some other source of healing, then there's no way to rid yourself of such maledictions, and you'll either have to retire your Pretender to research duties or relegate your awesome summon to army support (or just suicide it somewhere). Given that these issues should come up more often then not, even against massive piles of chaff, wouldn't this represent a serious limit on the usefulness of SCs? Or am I missing something really obvious?

[vfb]

Sounds to me like you've got a pretty good handle on how it works!

By the time afflictions start to pile up, it's possible you could craft some items that counter the worst aspects of your ailments. Reinvigoration to counter chest wounds, flight if you've been crippled, etc.

You could also use an immortal god (or one that recuperates), since all immortals recuperate.

Or use a god that very rarely gets afflicted. High protection and high HP help, and the more you regenerate, the less chance you have of acquiring an affliction. Stay away from lizard provinces so you don't get cursed. And anything that stops damage helps of course, such as a pendant of luck, as does mistform, body ethereal, etc.

[SlipperyJim]

As vfb wrote, you've got a pretty good handle on how afflictions work. AFAICT, afflictions were designed for precisely the purpose that we find so annoying. In other words, afflictions are a counter to having one uber-unit that smashes the entire map. You can still build the uber-unit if you really want to do so, but afflictions will limit its usefulness sooner or later.

You did forget one method of healing afflictions: Faery Queen. She's a non-unique Nature summon, so any nation with decent Nature magic can get a few of them. If you don't have decent Nature magic on your national mages ... um ... hope for good luck with an independent mage?

Also, someone once made a mod that gave all Pretenders the "Recuperation" advantage. If you use that mod, you can at least have an un-afflicted demigod....

[Endovior]

Cool, had hoped I wasn't missing anything too obvious. Figured there was some sort of summon with healing, but I don't have all the lists memorized yet; I'll keep it in mind for the future.

Beyond that, are there actually any Immortal Pretenders that are viable as an SC? I've only seen Immortal on mage-types like the Lich and Phoenix, not the map-clearing giant monsters like the Cyclops and Wyrm. Not to discount the Immortal magi, of course, but that's a weapon whose usefulness is slanted more towards the late game, with rather limited out-of-the-box power. And on a related note, there aren't any sneaky roundabout ways of gaining Immortal, are there?

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by SlipperyJim

As vfb wrote, you've got a pretty good handle on how afflictions work. AFAICT, afflictions were designed for precisely the purpose that we find so annoying. In other words, afflictions are a counter to having one uber-unit that smashes the entire map. You can still build the uber-unit if you really want to do so, but afflictions will limit its usefulness sooner or later.

You did forget one method of healing afflictions: Faery Queen. She's a non-unique Nature summon, so any nation with decent Nature magic can get a few of them. If you don't have decent Nature magic on your national mages ... um ... hope for good luck with an independent mage?

Also, someone once made a mod that gave all Pretenders the "Recuperation" advantage. If you use that mod, you can at least have an un-afflicted demigod....

You beat me to it. Faery Queen works for every nation--though depending on where you set the Magic Research at, getting to her could be time-consuming.

[OmikronWarrior]

Immortal SC? Vampire Queen with the right gear, but then if she dies you still loose the gear and the chasis is overpriced. The Phoenix can work as an SC as well, but you pretty much need to have some Evocation researched first. The basic lich can work as well, just pile on death magic (for fear) and awe and get some protective buffs.

Of course, most of this theory or maybe something I briefly experimented with in SP. I never actually attempted an immortal SC in a multiplayer environment.

[thejeff]

I don't think any of the immortals really work well as SCs, except possible the overpriced VQ.
For clearing indies an F9 phoenix with just Fire Darts works pretty well. Dies sometimes, but with no gear that's no great loss. Lich can also be used with just Raise Dead/Skeletons.
Neither will work solo against another player, but since you won't want to use them out of Dominion anyway, they'll usually be defensive and have troops or at least PD.

[K]

Originally Posted by thejeff

I don't think any of the immortals really work well as SCs, except possible the overpriced VQ.
For clearing indies an F9 phoenix with just Fire Darts works pretty well. Dies sometimes, but with no gear that's no great loss. Lich can also be used with just Raise Dead/Skeletons.
Neither will work solo against another player, but since you won't want to use them out of Dominion anyway, they'll usually be defensive and have troops or at least PD.

The Wraithlord makes a decent SC (at least on par with a Banelord). He's immortal.

[Endoperez]

If you play as Agartha, you can choose Risen Oracle. Immortal chassis with full humanoid slots, good hp and Earth/Death magic. It's very, very powerful.

I think there's also a Jotunheim-spesific Bog Mummy/undead Skratti semi-rainbow immortal giant.

[sum1lost]

I believe that shinuyuma gets an immortal, non undead pretender that has some combat potential, though not to the degree that the cyclops does. (44 base HP, starting pathes are death and fire)