Supermen Infantry?

MarkIV · #1 December 14th, 2006, 05:32 PM

Hi to all,
first, thanks to the authors and the community for this wonderful games.
I playing it many times with various armies and I dont understand what I can do with tank, artillery and so on when the infantry can make all the job. Really, I have played with AI's infantry toughness set to 30 and my to 100 but I can fire with AFV, artillery and my infantry on the supermen and they reply to every shot and fight to the last men without any regard to any kind of suppression fire or casualty

More than this, this iron men are the terror of the enemy tank: also the green troops of the "last" army can knock-out a tank a distance. I think: there is a bug in the game?
Also with this (for me) limitation, I like this game and play it with fun, but I think that the game will be more realistic with a infantry arm a bit less "invincible".
"Ciao" from Italy
P.S.: sorry for my bad english

thatguy96 · #2 December 14th, 2006, 07:15 PM

This question comes up about every so often. Here are two previous threads about it:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

Smersh · #3 December 18th, 2006, 08:53 PM

yeah this issue comes up quite alot. I think, I brought this up to, comparing infantry toughness in WW2 vs. MBT

Its very hit or miss with infantry, sometimes they can be very resilant and other times they can be very quickly wiped out.

In a recent 1989 battle, I had 2 squads overlook a road interesection. These two squads completely stopped and killed a large portion of the 2 platoon assualt by the enemy. fighting was bettwen 100-250m, while sustaining only light damage. Mortar inderict fire finished off the rest of the enemy.

and next battle, an enemy abush killed a entire squad but one man in a single firing.

MarkIV · #4 December 21st, 2006, 11:51 AM

I can think that infantry in well prepared positions or in rough terrain can make many casualties on the advancing enemy tank or infantry. But I don't think that a group of men in the open fired many times by HE and small arms (and having loss the 50% of their original force), can reply making damage at near any enemy shooters as well as deadly long range anti-tank shots. The common soldier holds dawn the head when targeting with great amount of fire, this is the reason for suppress fire at suspected enemy locations.
The problem is that my troops is suppressed by enemy fire and not always rallied quickly, but the AI rally his infantry more quickly and with deadly fire in reply. have other players noticed this?

thatguy96 · #5 December 21st, 2006, 01:46 PM

What nations are you playing? They have different morale and leadership ratings which affect things like rallying suppressed troops.

Siddhi · #6 December 22nd, 2006, 09:29 AM

funnily enough my experience has been slightly different...
i have no problem with 1 squad wiping out another in an ambush at >150m in open ground, it is completly plausible. what i consistenly have difficulty with is the protective factor of woods, buildings and entrenchments to both arty fire (various sorts, but especially light mortors) and especially rifle fire. i have often experienced (roughly equal traing/leadership rating/equipment) two advancing squads over open ground force an entrenched squad in woods into suppression and retreat. the expected ratio IIRC for such ops is 1:5 or even 1:6. Casulties for the advancing squad at e.g. 200m are often much too low, e.g. the "supermen" seem to be only work one way...

EnemyAce · #7 April 8th, 2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

The problem is that my troops is suppressed by enemy fire and not always rallied quickly, but the AI rally his infantry more quickly and with deadly fire in reply. have other players noticed this?

I think this too. As an old Civilization fanatic

I think that it's just a little advance given to AI because as we know human is superior against AI. Or then it just might be the odds.

Now in my recent game, random battle S.K vs. China. I'm the S.K and I've pretty much overwhelmed AI.
With one infantry platoon I managed to held victory hexes against AIs perhaps two or three platoons. It was bit of amusing that AI didn't had any kind of reasonable strategy, it just pushed infantry squads towadrs to victory hexes where my infantry groups with one MBT killed and retreated atleast five enemy squads.

Not any kind arty preparations, nothing, nada. Couple of turns AI tried to suppress my troops with pesky 60mm mortars and 80mm which I removed with couple of MBTs while I noticed mortar locations.

Random battles are quite easy to win perhaps with at any kind of army against any kind of army after you get the idea how to fight against AI. For kicks I usually try to win with weaker against stronger.

Punjistick · #8 April 19th, 2007, 03:47 AM

And most of the time they come in strengh of a InfReg +. Also if you set up AI tank heavy..doesnt matter. Sometimes i think this game should chance his name into MII (Main Infanty Battle)

and its annouying to win the battle by destroying theyr tanks..HQ..Artillery..and AirDefences... till the first 10-15 rounds and 200--400 enemy still pushing on a target that they never can reach...but they never gave up and you had to play the round till end...means another 15 rounds for nothing just kill the last crewman on the map

Maybe it make sence against an opfor like China...but thats all.
The times that the russians push fwd with a vodka drunken regiment into german MG fire is over. I think on a modern battlefield you will didnt see a fully armed InfReg ...on foot...will assaulting your company or battalion.

RVPERTVS · #9 April 19th, 2007, 04:07 AM

Personally I think this and the "massive infantry" issue got fixed for good with v3.0, for my pleasure

loktarr · #10 April 23rd, 2007, 07:58 AM

With only mortars, you can push a huge human wave to retreat and rout, without even risk any of your tanks/APCs. Only one jeep and your mortars are needed. After that Tanks/Mechs can destroy them with very little casualties.
In the opposite tanks/mech are very hard to kill with arty: you have to plan very good targets to hit them. Only aircraft can do easily the job against them:
infantery is not supermen if you use your arty carefully.
The first scen of the Israel vs Palestine (AIW: Kaliliah 10/56) is very good for such stuff: you have mechs against inf/motor inf, and with two 25p batteries, you can kill them all: try it.