Need Help with Helo Unit Class Problem

[Suhiir]

I've been working on fine tuneing OOB 13 (USMC).
I need some expert advice on how the AI will attempt to use helicopters.

Looking at the manual I see :
53 - Helicopter (Basic Transport Helicopter)
203 - Attack Helicopter (Armed Attack Helicopter)
204 - Light Helicopter (Observation Helo, transport with < 1 squad lift)
205 - Heavy Helicopter (Heavy Transport Helo, Chinooks etc)
221 - Light Attack Helicopter (Attack Helo Clone)
222 - COIN Armed Helo (Attack Helo Clone)

My problem is the USMC has light (UH-1 types), medium (CH-46's, and V-22), and heavy (CH-53 etc) helos.
Due to the carry limits on the H-19 and UH-1 class helo's they won't hold a Marine Squad (13-14 men).
Prior to version 3.0 this wasn't a problem as I moved the light helo's to Unit Class 204 and created a series of smaller infantry units (just had more of them in a platoon).

However with version 3.0 :
"10) The Light helo class is now classed as an arty observer and has all the same abilities as the Leg FO and FO Vehicle classes with the exception that the 15 EW value for other FOOs is not used, as that interferes with AAA self-defence EW."

Now that Unit Class 204 (Light Helicopters) are classified ss FO's light helo's cost a lot more (from 57 to 117 points for a UH-1E) and we have the problem of a heloborne unit having a zillion FO's.

If I change the UH-1 type helo's to Unit Class 222 (COIN Armed Helo - no change in unit cost and they normally have a MG or 2 anyway).the AI seems to ignore loaded troops and use them as Attack Helos.

[DRG]

You are attempting to use an "Attack Helo Clone " helo class as a transport helo and you've demonstrated it will ignore troops and act like an attack helo. The light helo was intended to move, maybe scouts and that's it and now it can spot for arty . (It seems no matter what we do anymore somebody ends up unhappy. ) It was never intended to move "troops". I'm not sure what the question here is

53 - Helicopter (Basic Transport Helicopter)
205 - Heavy Helicopter (Heavy Transport Helo, Chinooks etc)

are transport helos

203 - Attack Helicopter (Armed Attack Helicopter)
221 - Light Attack Helicopter (Attack Helo Clone)
222 - COIN Armed Helo (Attack Helo Clone)

are attack helos

204 - Light Helicopter (Observation Helo, transport with < 1 squad lift)

is a light spotting helo with maybe the capability to carry scouts or FO's

Don

[thatguy96]

Surprisingly you're finding out a historical reality as well. The USMC never used the H-19 and UH-1 for major troop transport. The UH-34 and CH-46 were used in these roles primarily, with the H-53 series eventually taking over.

The H-19 and UH-1 were used for light transport, small troop movements, insertions and extractions of small teams, MEDEVAC, and forward observation. You really shouldn't be trying to mount aerial assaults with them. It was never their intended role.

[Suhiir]

thatguy96 said:
Surprisingly you're finding out a historical reality as well. The USMC never used the H-19 and UH-1 for major troop transport. The UH-34 and CH-46 were used in these roles primarily, with the H-53 series eventually taking over.

The H-19 and UH-1 were used for light transport, small troop movements, insertions and extractions of small teams, MEDEVAC, and forward observation. You really shouldn't be trying to mount aerial assaults with them. It was never their intended role.

Being a former Jarhead myself I'm aware of this.
BUT -
I'm trying to "correct" OOB 13 (USMC) while maintaining the current unit/formations (probably an impossible task). Unfortunately I ran face first into Formation #125 Rifle Pl (Huey) 1/60 thru 12/69. And while a player will be smart enough not to try to put full size (14 men at the time due to the M-79 Grenadier) on a UH-1E (capacity 8 men) the AI of course can't quite manage.

Guess I'll just have to use the X3 Radio Code so the AI ignores Hueys but a player can still buy them should they desire.

[DRG]

Suhiir said:
I'm trying to "correct" OOB 13 (USMC) while maintaining the current unit/formations (probably an impossible task). Unfortunately I ran face first into Formation #125 Rifle Pl (Huey) 1/60 thru 12/69. And while a player will be smart enough not to try to put full size (14 men at the time due to the M-79 Grenadier) on a UH-1E (capacity 8 men) the AI of course can't quite manage.

Guess I'll just have to use the X3 Radio Code so the AI ignores Hueys but a player can still buy them should they desire.

What EXACTLY are you trying to "correct" with that formation? For the life of that formation it only uses 8 man squads which matches the carry capacity of the UH-1E and all the units in the platoon can be loaded into 6 UH-1Es.

Don

[Suhiir]

DRG said:

What EXACTLY are you trying to "correct" with that formation? For the life of that formation it only uses 8 man squads which matches the carry capacity of the UH-1E and all the units in the platoon can be loaded into 6 UH-1Es.
Don

Sorry, I should more accurately say "rebuild" OOB 13, while attempting not to mess up it's basic structure.

Mostly adding X3 Radio Codes to stuff like OH-58's, creating UH-1 class "Light Helo's" to be used as spotters, adding M107 175mm SP artillery (I know we had them, I saw them in the mid-70's), renaming the "Sikorsky H-19" to "HRS-1 Chickasaw", creating 14-man squads during the M-79 period (and 2x4-man & 1x5-man fireteams during this period), creating platoon TO's that include the "normal" attachments from the company weapons platoon (2xMMG teams & 1xAT team), creating a company level "slice" of the battalion and regiment weapons companies, etc, etc, etc.
Also doing a LOT of digging into availability dates.

While I can certainly rebuild the OOB (I've been researching and working on it for several weeks now) I'd hoped to make it compatible with the current one.
From what I've gathered the AI pick list is based on the Formation part of the OOB and as long as that's not messed with modifications to the units themselves weren't a problem. I can add new formations for players to use, and as long as I don't change the availibility dates and "type" (aircraft, armor, artillery, etc) of the existing formations the AI shouldn't have any problems.

However I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that it's not going to be possible to create an accurate OOB and not modify the Formations.

That leaves me with two choices, give up, or create a custom OOB.

I'd hoped to (eventually) submit my OOB for inclusion in the game but the constraints of maintaining the existing OOB make this appear impossible.

[thatguy96]

Suhiir said:

Being a former Jarhead myself I'm aware of this.
BUT -
I'm trying to "correct" OOB 13 (USMC) while maintaining the current unit/formations (probably an impossible task). Unfortunately I ran face first into Formation #125 Rifle Pl (Huey) 1/60 thru 12/69. And while a player will be smart enough not to try to put full size (14 men at the time due to the M-79 Grenadier) on a UH-1E (capacity 8 men) the AI of course can't quite manage.

Guess I'll just have to use the X3 Radio Code so the AI ignores Hueys but a player can still buy them should they desire.

I'm guessing you "corrected" the size of the base Marine Squad in OOB 13 to 13-14 men for this to become an issue. In this case, I'm surprised that similarly for realism issues you didn't just delete Formation 125.