Are 'trick' spells viable?

[Nerfix]

So, are 'trick' spells like False Fetters, Bonds of Fire, Rage and such viable in a serious game of Dominions II?

[Endoperez]

Nerfix said:
So, are 'trick' spells like False Fetters, Bonds of Fire, Rage and such viable in a serious game of Dominions II?

I have seen a Nataraja start killing my own units thanks to Rage. I didn't notice him being affected by it in the beginning, when there were enemy units around him, but when he started going for my archers... For a spell affecting only one unit, it can slow down or hurt surpisingly many units.

Those spells have their uses, but only in spesific cases. As an example, a strong enemy force can be slowed down, so that e.g. only few of the 15 knights reach your units in the first wave, and are massacred before the next few get to your units.

[Saber Cherry]

Not only are they weak, they are short range. That's an impossible double-whammy, and I'd never use them. Consider a level 2 (+ Phoenix Power, level 3) fire mage:

1) Killing 6/20 knights at range 40, at cost 20 fatigue.
2) Briefly immobilizing 6/20 knights at range 25, at cost 30 fatigue.

Notice how one of them is dumb... This goes for most of the other spells, too. The non-lethal spells need to have (some of) a substantially lower fatigue cost, greater range, greater precision, and greater area than lethal spells to be viable, and they don't.

[Nerfix]

Some of them are more precise though, and that's nice.

But yeah, I don't know if 'nice' is enough. I've seen a Knight charge get foiled by Rage spam, but there could have been better ways to spend the research. Maybe.

Some of them like Suplhur Haze and Freezing Mists have path requirements that aren't very easy to meet, too.

Blind spam is kinda diffrent, but the range is very short.

[shovah]

blind rocks in arena though (my f1 sage blinded a wyrm in CoW ) rage could be very useful vrs a group of thugs if they all started fighting eachother.

[Endoperez]

Nerfix said:
Some of them are more precise though, and that's nice.

But yeah, I don't know if 'nice' is enough. I've seen a Knight charge get foiled by Rage spam, but there could have been better ways to spend the research. Maybe.

Some of them like Suplhur Haze and Freezing Mists have path requirements that aren't very easy to meet, too.

I always thought of Suplhur Haze and Freezing Mists as damage spells. Do you mean that all cloud spells are 'trick' spells as well?
Weird path combination doesn't make a spell a 'trick' spell. Only Tien Chi/Atlantis/Arcos get Acid (Water/Fire) with randoms in most games, Magma (earth/fire) is rare except on Ulm, Nether Darts is the only Astral/Death combination spell with Nether Dart, but this doesn't make these spells any weaker.

[Gandalf Parker]

Some are better used by solo mages or pretenders or in arena. Ot a mage surrounded by sword fodder.

[Nerfix]

Endoperez said:I always thought of Suplhur Haze and Freezing Mists as damage spells. Do you mean that all cloud spells are 'trick' spells as well?
Weird path combination doesn't make a spell a 'trick' spell. Only Tien Chi/Atlantis/Arcos get Acid (Water/Fire) with randoms in most games, Magma (earth/fire) is rare except on Ulm, Nether Darts is the only Astral/Death combination spell with Nether Dart, but this doesn't make these spells any weaker.

Well, they do neglible damage and their main purpose is to poison/numb the enemies there. FYI, I consider stuff like Combustion trick spells too.

Combustion spam is fun, too. 'Fun', maybe not effective.

[PvK]

It depends on what they hit. I've stopped super-combattants in their tracks with Tangle Vines. Not resisted by MR, and wastes a turn of theirs regardless of their Strength. As long as you can keep casting it on them, they will be inactive. Now, if it just lands on a soulless or maenad or something, you'd rather have hit them with a damage effect.

[shovah]

but the fact that the n1 sage you just recruited can cast an AoE15 (albiet with no range iirc) with the tangle vine effect thats good.