Gamey tactics discussion thread

sachmo · #1 October 22nd, 2004, 10:34 AM

So as not to clog up the Gamey Tactics thread, I wanted to start this thread to discuss the "gameyness" of said tactics.

18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.

Now, in a multiplayer game, this may be considered a cheat, but I like it because it fits in with a plotline. If you are going to pearl harbor someone, you would hopefully wait until your fleet was past their defenses before slagging their planet, wouldn't you?

tesco samoa · #2 October 22nd, 2004, 12:36 PM

they are not the enemy until you declare war.

I feel this is an exploit of a hole within the game.

And if your going to use it. Include the ability to sweep the 100 mines... Then it is fine

But if your going... Man I have no minesweepers so i am going to attack and declare war at the same time to by pass the other guys mines then it is a gamey tactic.

Suprise attacks are fine.

As long as this little bug is not exploited.

spoon · #3 October 22nd, 2004, 01:22 PM

On the other hand, I consider it to be completely legit. If you are depending on your mines and diplomatic charms to stop the enemy, you get what's coming to you.

Gandalf Parker · #4 October 22nd, 2004, 01:34 PM

Its not like thats not a "real" tactic. A friend moves ships in past your mines then suddenly declares war? Whats the clue? how many ships? the size? True for realism it probably should only allow one small bombed "terrorist" ship.

Now if it was to be "fixed" Id like to see more treaty choices such as "my ships dont fire on your ships but you dont get pass codes for my satellites and mines". That would allow you to decide which systems your "friend" does or does not get to pass thru.

Or even an option menu:
Do my ships still alert and chase you on sight?
ships on sentry?
can our ships share the same spot?
limit by size?
limit by number?
shared refuel?
shared repair?
mine pass?
satellite pass?
weapon platform?
defense bases?

Rasorow · #5 October 22nd, 2004, 02:37 PM

Poster: Gandalf Parker
Subject: Re: Gamey tactics discussion thread

Its not like thats not a "real" tactic. A friend moves ships in past your mines then suddenly declares war? Whats the clue? how many ships? the size? True for realism it probably should only allow one small bombed "terrorist" ship.

Actually it is a real tatic. Japan moved their entire fleet within airstrike distance of Pearl Harbor without detection. While Japan did not intend to attack without a declaration of war, they did make sure thier fleets and armies were in a position to strike as soon as war was declared.

You as the other nation seeing all these warships approach your planet/sector/territory should be screaming diplomaticly for them to remove their ships. If they do not then prior to them hitting the minefield you should cancel your treaty. Of course, some empires wont be strong enough and have to swallow the loss of the planet, but it is a real tactic. There are a number of times in history that a battle was fought and won or lost due to the ability to pre-position troops under the cloak of friendly relations.

Rasorow

Fyron · #6 October 22nd, 2004, 02:41 PM

Except for the fact that mines don't ignore friends that turn enemies in a surprise attack in reality...

sachmo · #7 October 22nd, 2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

they are not the enemy until you declare war.

Unless you know they are the enemy before they do!

Quote:

I feel this is an exploit of a hole within the game.

Totally understandable. My point is that if it's a sneak attack, it's likely to get past your defenses anyway. They still have to deal with WPs and defense forces.

Quote:

And if your going to use it. Include the ability to sweep the 100 mines... Then it is fine

A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down?

Quote:

But if your going... Man I have no minesweepers so i am going to attack and declare war at the same time to by pass the other guys mines then it is a gamey tactic.

Again, I can totally see this side of it. I just think it's a nasty trick instead of a gamey tactic!

Quote:

Suprise attacks are fine.

I guess that's how I see this.

Quote:

As long as this little bug is not exploited.

Don't know if I agree that it's a bug. More like a temptation.

geoschmo · #8 October 22nd, 2004, 02:06 PM

In my opinion the sneak attack is a classic move and well within the bounds of the rules. I wouldn't call it gamey or cheating to move your ships over an allies world in order to bypass his mines and then break treaty and attack.

This is not gamey anymore then mining an allies space while under treaty is.

On the other hand, you should expect to reap what you so if you employ these tactics. Don't pull them on someone, and then act all shocked when they don't trust you in the future.

Geoschmo

Fyron · #9 October 22nd, 2004, 02:36 PM

Shouldn't mines detonate before any ship attacks the planet anyways? Why are the minefields around my planet _not_ active against ships that just happen to be in the sector already? Sectors are massive locations, so its not as if the mines would all be one the edge of the sector... Any time you attack a planet in a sector that has a minefield up, you should have to go through the minefield, regardless of whether you moved there as an "ally" or not... It would be the same thing as being able to ignore orbiting satellites just because you entered the sector as an ally. Would that make any sense?

spoon · #10 October 22nd, 2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Imperator Fyron said:
... Would that make any sense?

Sure -- I mean, as long as you are making "reality"-based assumptions to how something as unrealistic as SE4 mines work, you can just go ahead and assume that all allies have either maps or IFF codes to bypass the mines, and that it takes exactly one turn to modify the mines positions/codes for them to work against the sneaky bastards who attacked you.