Is it just me or is Hellheim troops way to strong?

[General_Jah]

I'm in my 2nd game and playing Caelum becaues the scenario said they were very hard... and boy was it right.

My first game I randomed Hellheim and felt it was a bit to easy once I got my army rolling....

Now I'm having to fight a war with Hellheim as Caelum and Vanheim to boot!

Is it just me or are their armies just WAY to strong... not only do they all have mirrior images but their defense is through the roof. When I played them I could very easily amass their calvary and waste anything even when out numbered.

They just seem really imbalanced here... What am I missing? I realize Caelum may just be a hard nation to play but the other computer controlled nations seem to just be getting rolled by them *** well.

What do you guys think?

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Covenant]

Another problem with MP is that people can ally against you. Since everyone knows the Vanir factions are incredibly powerful unless you use specialized tactics, people are more likely to ally up to defend against an aggressive 'heim expansionist.

If they can be contained long enough to get you a resource base to recruit mages from and enough AoE spells to make it possible to combat them unglamoured then they become much more fair. Like early-age Elephant Rushes against people like Ulm, sometimes the foe you're facing is just incredibly difficult for you to battle. The 'heims fit there.

They should definatly have the balance tweaked a little, since diplomacy should not substitute actual game balance, but what's more of a pressing concern is bringing weaker forces up to the same level as most people than bringing the few super sides down a notch.

As Caelum, you should have access to good mages and good arrows. A successful arrow hit will dispel a glamour. Also, use your Mammoths. Trampling works very well against Glamour in my experience, though I don't know if they take damage on the trample, they do seem to lose guys just as easily that way. At the very least they start losing their glamour shields, and other guys can come in to help out.

Am I right about that? I'm just remembering my hordes of Trogs swarming over the 'heims as being pretty effective.

[Reay]

Successful arrow hits dispel glamour? I thought they had to damage the unit to dispel glamour? Even if the arrow hits it might hit the shield or the units protection might be high, especially if they are earth blessed.

Tramples with Mammoths can get rid of glamour but you are only likely to cause 1 damage since their defense is so high.

So other than area affect spells what can work against Helherdlings?

[Velusion]

Reay said:
So other than area affect spells what can work against Helherdlings?

Running away?

[General_Jah]

Velusion said:

Running away?

lol seriously!

Any tips for me as Caelum in countering Hellheim other than mass elephants? I tried massing thunderstorm through my lvl 4 air casters but frankly they dont seem to be enough to stop a 200-300 unit computer army. I just lost 2 decisive battles and a good chunk of my territory so I believe this game is over for me but I would like to know what to do in the future.

On a somewhat side note, so far in my two game experiences magic has not played a big role... Spells seem to take a lot of work to get to and dont really make the trouble worhtwhile from a damage standpoint....

I mean I had roughly 5 lvl 4 air casters using thunderstorm vs hellheim and though it defintely damaged them, I was not able to win the battle. They outnumbered me 2:1 from a troop standpoint. Had I used the 2000 resources for 16 elephants it might have been a different story...

Perhaps casters are only good late game and I just rushed to them real early.. i dont know... my strategy was to crank out non stop my eagle kings so i could cruise around nuking armies but it didn't work out when I started running into these huge 200-300 unit armies, especially when they were controlled by Hellheim and Vanheim

please some tips vs these nations! btw this ie EA

[Velusion]

FrankTrollman said:
But Helheim doesn't seem to have an amazingly good record in multiplayer so I doubt that they are too strong.
-Frank

I do have to point out this line of reasoning isn't going to work if everyone simply gangs up on them like I've seen in many games.

I think the biggest gripe is that they are pretty invincible in the early stages of the game. There is very little you can do about an uberblessed hel/vanheim nation that rushes you out of the gate, which is frustrating.

Once the bigger AoE spells start to get researched things start to even out it would appear.

[Saxon]

KissBlade,

Sorry, I missed the recruitment bug and am strangely unwilling to go exploring in the bug thread. Can you give us a line or two on what that problem is/was? Did it get cleaned up in the last patch?

Cheers!

[KissBlade]

It was cleaned up after the first patch where the majority of Helheim's overpoweredness shone through. Essentially Helherdlings were not capital only.

[Beorne]

This mean that now Hel and Van are balanced? And that the dev will not do anything to tune them down? Bad ...