Tien Chi and conscription

[jaif]

Can anybody say precisely (math included) what conscription does? I've seen occasional 1-person growths in the PD. How does that work? I know you need order, I'm looking for the math at this point...

Another question - is there any point to most MA Tien Chi's leaders? Why bother with any mage other than the best one?

-Jeff

[Edi]

I've not seen a topic to that effect on these forums yet.

As for the second, that would depend on the era, but for MA, there isn't any point recruiting anything but Celestial Masters from the capital.

[Gandalf Parker]

That would of course depend on how much you can count on your capital. In smaller games that would work better than large ones.

Other than that, yes its a consideration. They were created back before the gold boost of Dom3 which is a big impact in this case. I guess that games with low-gold settings would also make a difference but generally it could stand to be looked at.

[Kristoffer O]

I think the conscription was changed after the gold fix, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure about the mechanics, but IIRC every province has a few percent * order scale to get +1 PD each turn. IIRC this chance gets lower with PD over 20. I think the effect is difficult to notice, but not too bad. MA tien chi has higher conscr value than LA. Don't know if EA has it at all.

[IndyPendant]

Hmm. No hard numbers on conscription--but MA Tien-Chi is one of my favourite nations, even though it seems to be considered sub-par here on the forums. And I recruit other leaders all the time. Here are some examples as to why you would:

Scout: Never. Ever. Recruit this. Period. Forget they exist. (I have.) If you absolutely have to have scouts, find an indie one or build Spies instead.

General: Limited utility. Good leader, not great. You start with one, and Generals will probably lead most/all of your armies created from non-capital castles. For your capital, the Prince General is almost always better.

Eunuch: Solid niche unit. Great, cheap patroller (+25!!! bonus), and a 40-man leader as well. I often build three of these at game start, set them to Patrol the Capital, and ratchet up the taxes to 200 for massive initial income for, oh, as long as I need it--without having to worry about keeping an army in the home province. Ever. They also make good, cheap ferriers of armies later on--although indie leaders would work just as well for that.

Imperial Consort: Wonderful unit. I use these in groups of 5 to shut down enemy castles (particularly underwater--just give them Rings of Waterbreathing). Or--rarely--use them as spies; you get more information than you do from scouts.

Ceremonial Master: Never, ever build this unit. Minister of Rituals is superior in every way.

Minister of Rituals: Good unit, not great. I sometimes build these in groups of 3-5 to preach if my Dominion is hurting, and I usually have 1-3 running around at any one time building temples and stuff.

Master of the Way: Your default research unit. These units actually have a better ratio of cost/research than Celestial Masters. They also do not suffer from old age. Build these everywhere until you reach the level of research you want.

Celestial Master: Capital-only. I usually build these early game (after getting my Eunuchs patrolling) until I've got a nice mix of paths that don't suffer from old age, and I have enough to join armies later. (Which usually means up through mid-to-late game.) Other than paths and combat, however, the Masters of the Way are better units.

Prince General: Capital-only. My default army-leader, with a 120 unit base. I usually build these whenever I need to lead an army, give them a crafted bow, and send them off. I also often build these instead of Celestial Masters on those turns when I'm hurting for gold.

[jaif]

Thanks all for the answers. I've been playing more. My real issue with leaders is in regards to the middle three - master of the way, ceremonial master, and master of rituals. I agree with you about about all the others, especially eunuchs which are an incredible unit. 25 gold for something that can ferry units, spend 5 turns building a fortified city, roam behind the lines to catch stupid stealth tricks and so on. Great unit.

I'm starting to like the Master of the Way. Celestial Masters are weak to astral duals. Frankly, I think they need to be kept behind the lines summoning and forging as needed. Masters of the Way can be given a staff or other booster and provide adequate mage and priest support.

I still haven't found myself "needing" a ceremonial master or a master of rituals, though. But I'm willing to chalk that up to style of play at this point.

-Jeff

P.S. Yes, consorts or wonderful too. I just didn't want to repeat your whole list. :-)

[Psycho]

Ha. And I was wondering why the TC player in one of my games was buying such huge amounts of pd. Nearly a year with the game and I still haven't tried more than half of the nations.

[JimMorrison]

I'm confused by the suggestions I see here, regarding capital recruitment.

TC appears to have 2 capital only mages, and I see people saying "no reason to recruit anything but Celestial Masters", but what about the Imperial Alchemist? The Imperial Alchemist is your only access to Fire. They are also going to have forging combinations that Celestial Masters will never gain access to. To top it off, they are less likely to be old age. Now due to cost, and sacred status, I would agree that Celestial Masters should get more use, but the Imperial Alchemist is a very valuable mage as well.

[Edi]

Check the posting dates. When this thread was created, there were no Imperial Alchemists or any of the other new additions that got spliced in via patch.

[KissBlade]

Once I get an n2 and f2 imp alch, I go back to CM's. IMp Geo's are so frigging expensive and I don't find them that great for battlemages. Just average.