Question regarding fleet composition.

[Starhawk]

I am playing a game with the Devnull mod turned on and I notice that the AI is using a good mix of Heavy Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, and Battleships even though many of them are quite capable of producing entire squadrons of battleships.

Now it seems to me that although a Heavy Cruiser by it's self can't stand against an enemy Battleship in a fleet on fleet engagement I saw a Manticore squadron of 2 BBs, and 3 HVCs cruising through my space on their way to Gou'Ould space less then a month ago, and the HVCs were of the latest tech so it's not like they were just remnents. I have since copied their example and have been building Cruisers, HVCs, BCs and BBs all outfitted with my latest tech and forming them up into fleets.

Well okay sorry about the rambling, my question is this? What is it about the devnull mod that makes the AI continue to build lower end ships even when they have Battleships while in the Vanilla game once you got dreads you didn't mix fleets anymore you just scrapped the BBs? And is it a glitch that I should not copy? Even though a HVC is about 1/2 the cost of a battleship?

And for that matter is there any way to make the game more realistic in that Light Cruisers would still have their place even in a navy with Battleships? I mean look at the real world no navy consists entirely of one size vessel no matter how much more firepower it has then the other ship sizes in the fleet?

[dogscoff]

Plenty of mods address the issue you mentoin, namely keeping smaller ship sizes useful throughout the game. Many mods use enhanced speed and to-hit modifiers to do this- smaller ships are made faster and more agile- and another factor is often cost, especially in mods like P&N where you can start filling up those kt with ultra-expensive armours and weapon mounts.

It's a while since I played Devnullmod, but I believe both of those techniques are used, to a certain extent. That's why your AI ships are still using older hull sizes.

[Starhawk]

Well the one interesting thing is that even my Light Cruisers have proved to be useful against the Crystlonite empire, although the squadron of LCs was flagged by two Heavy Cruisers and I think it was 3 cruisers...

It's just too bad this game doesn't have random Pirate raids and junk to make things more interesting......aw well maybe in SEV because it would also make lighter ships more usefull as you wouldn't really want to have to dispatch a Dreadnought to deal with a pirate Light Cruiser...

[ June 29, 2004, 18:46: Message edited by: Starhawk ]

[Parasite]

In the real world, fleets and ships have many different roles and missions. Showing the Flag, Convoy Escort, Scouting, Anti-Air or Anti Sub missions, ect.

SEIV has pretty much only two. Minesweeping and Blow it Up. (plus the support functions) Large hulls are usually better for doing both of these, therefore everything else gets put by the wayside.

Plus there are the maitanace differences that some mods bring to the fore. A smaller ship takes a lot less maintance (and personnel) than a larger one.

[Starhawk]

Yes well I'd like to see smaller ships serving a role in SEV even after the first few years of the game I mean in a space empire there would still be a need for patrol craft and raiders and not JUST ships for "line of battle maneuvers".

I mean like I said pirates would be a great addition, as would smugglers or other random raiders that would not require the assets of a full Battleship, considering the fact that in this devnull mod I'm playing a battleship is over 3k more EVERYTHING then even a battlecruiser and almost twice as much as a heavy cruiser they are a rarity in my fleet, though they are more powerful then the other ships listed. And so I still have fleets with cruisers on up to my most current battleships. So that does make it slightly more realistic in that I couldn't readily afford 87 battleships but I can afford 87+ ships with about 15 battleships and still be a match for any single enemy fleet I've seen.

But on the subject of pirates, smugglers, and raiders would that be possible to program into a game like Space Empires because if so it would truely add new dimensions to the strategy of the game I mean imagine you send off your mighty warfleet to conquer an enemy player and leave no defenses around your worlds and it's just your luck that that's when pirates strike and rob and pillage your undefended worlds thus making you regret you didn't leave a squadron of patrol ships to stop the enemy. You know what I mean??

[ June 29, 2004, 21:11: Message edited by: Starhawk ]

[Rasorow]

Hmmmmm.....

Admittedly I only play single player but.....

against SEIV unmodded, I normally use the battlecruiser as my main ship. I have some battleships and Dreads... but this mainly stiffen my battlecruiser fleets. I also use cruisers in a main role in my attack fleets and dont normally have problems. Yes, every once in awhile an exceptionally powerful fleet comes my way.. then I might throw a couple of fleets together, but normally my battlecruisers, configured correctly can take out a dread. Baseships... another story.

Also for my defense fleets... which I always have defense fleets in my populous or strategic sectors are made of Cruisers, Light Cruisers, and Destroyers. A small fleet of them can handle most spies and small incrusions. I only need an attack fleet or primary defense fleet against major invasions.

I wouldnt think this would work in MP (I always play SP) but the SEIV AI chooses configs for its ship so poorly that if you choose a balanced design with proper specialist support (and I rarely use seekers or fighters in fleet combat but will always try to capture, configure AAA ships, have fleet tenders -repair ships, special weapon types, etc) you should not have a problem winning with smaller ships in tatical combat.

Strategic combat is a different shoe because the program does not allow you to issue the correct orders (those I want to issue like - defense screen for this ship, wait for this event then charge, etc)

Just my 2 cents

Rasorow