Dissapointed

[tinkthank]

This game could be so good, and it really had me intruiged for the 2-3 weeks I have had the demo. It is so intricate and clever. But I think two things are keeping me from buying it (well besides the price). What do you think?

First, they put so much effort into developing this amazing magic system (and item system), but when it comes to battles where they are implemented, the automated AI just ruins it. Sure you can say "cast specific spell" up to five times, and although that is not always a good idea (since you dont know exactly what will be going on), it helps -- but then the computer takes over and you get your super duper pretender casting the same ridiculous (non-stacking!) spells on himself over and over until he drops from fatigue instead of doing anything different. It's a shame, because the magic system just looks so good.

And maybe this is different in the full Version, but I have had a number of bizarre bugs where my commanders will just dissapear. I don't mean die, or get discovered, or unable to retreat to a friendly province -- they are just gone without a message.

I dont see any clues about upcoming patches or even indicating that there are things that need addressing on illwinter.com or here -- that is too bad also. Or is the full Version so different?

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
This game could be so good, and it really had me intruiged for the 2-3 weeks I have had the demo. It is so intricate and clever. But I think two things are keeping me from buying it (well besides the price). What do you think?

First, they put so much effort into developing this amazing magic system (and item system), but when it comes to battles where they are implemented, the automated AI just ruins it. Sure you can say "cast specific spell" up to five times, and although that is not always a good idea (since you dont know exactly what will be going on), it helps -- but then the computer takes over and you get your super duper pretender casting the same ridiculous (non-stacking!) spells on himself over and over until he drops from fatigue instead of doing anything different. It's a shame, because the magic system just looks so good.

And maybe this is different in the full Version, but I have had a number of bizarre bugs where my commanders will just dissapear. I don't mean die, or get discovered, or unable to retreat to a friendly province -- they are just gone without a message.

I dont see any clues about upcoming patches or even indicating that there are things that need addressing on illwinter.com or here -- that is too bad also. Or is the full Version so different?

As far as I know you are the first person complaining about the computer casting the same non stackable spell on himself over and over again, so I am a little curious what spell he was casting.

On your second part, under what circmustances did this transpire? Was it commanders dissappearing after a battle? Or when they were home researching?

[Targa]

Well, the concept behind the battles (besides making PbEM games possible) is that you really do have no control over what an army or a commander does while "in the field". Sure, you can tell him ahead of time what you'd like him to do, as well as his troops, but when the chaos ensues, all hell breaks loose and things don't always go as planned. Think of it this way...in a real war, the Commander-in-Chief (U.S. President) doesn't micromanage the commanders and troops on the battlefield.

I do agree with one thing though:

but then the computer takes over and you get your super duper pretender casting the same ridiculous (non-stacking!) spells on himself over and over until he drops from fatigue instead of doing anything different

There's nothing more annoying than fielding a powerful spellcaster with your army, only to see him sit way behind the troops casting things like "flame shield", "air shield", "bark skin", etc... on himself rather than casting offensive spells. I once saw a caster cast "flame shield" on himself throughout the entire battle. This could definitely use some work, IMO.

[tinkthank]

quote:
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Originally posted by Pillin:
Top of my head request would be a way to disable available spells for combat. So that if you dont want your mage to cast the panic spell, you disable that one
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THIS WOULD BE GREAT !
I hate watching my mages cast etheral shield or fire shield when all enemy units are retreating off the field.

AI: better usage of spells (e.g. not casting Iron Warrios on *yourself* after casting Invulnerability; not casting Barkskin four times in a row; not casting precision-boosting spells on melee friends, etc. etc.)

- better control over spellcasting (such as dividing spells into offensive, defensive, etc., or even individual ones, and being able to exclude ones you don't want to be cast; or a longer script list, e.g.)to lessen friendly fire and unnecessary protective spell casting

AI problems. I have seen my pretender cast Body Ethereal six consecutive times, despite having a very nice choice of other spells that it could have cast instead.

It is ridiculous, I have a pretender that basically goes into battle alone and takes out 250+ armies without breaking a sweat. The only time she has died has been to her casting magma eruption at such a close range she hurts herself, this drops her mistform, which instead of casting again, she casts magma eruption again to kill 3 or 4 useless enemy militia standing next to her. This process basically means she commits suicide when she could instead be casting much better spells.

It actually turned me off the game when this happened and I have been enjoying it immensely.

[ January 20, 2004, 15:43: Message edited by: Strages Sanctus ]

Protection does not stack; once Mass Protection has been cast, Barkskin / Protection are pointless unless additional units have been gained by summons, charm / enslavement etc.
I'd be happy if the spell AI would refrain from committing pointless fraticides, such as casting Breath of Winter when surrounded by hordes of non-cold-immune friendlies, or casting Protection on friendlies surrounded by heat-aura folks.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

These are just a few of what some others had written, so I cant be the first one.

I remember "Barksking" "Strength of Gaia" "Blessing" and a few other being cast over and over on myself despite lots of other nice choices.

And my commanders dissapeared after a battle -- watched the battle, waiting for them to die, but no, they survived nicely.

[johan osterman]

Blessing and similar spells that do not target just the commanders could very well have been cast on other blessable troops in the vicinity. I am a little sceptical to claims that the AI has cast nonstackable spells that only targets the caster and has no fail chance repeatedly on itself. I attribute the cases reported to having troops nearby that can be affected by spells, so for example body ethreal has an area of 1 and so can be cast on nearby bodyguards, so that reported incident is most likely not a case of casting a nonstackable spell repeatedly on itself. As for not casting offensive spells on fleeing troops this is most likely stems from not being in range or that the AI calculates that the chance of hitting friendliess is to high. Most people otherwise seems to believe that the AI's friendly fire avoidance is not strict enough. The spellcasting AI will never be human smart, and if it were magic would become even more dominating in the game.

Your other complaint is probably caused by the battle replay bug. Unfortunately sometimes the battle replays does not match the battle. This might happen more if you participate in an MP game where the game is hosted on another platform. This bug has not been localised.

Edit: Also in the 2.07 patch the spell AI will drop the estimated worth of some protective enchanments. As it stands it will also value protective enchanments less and less as turns go by.

[ January 27, 2004, 13:16: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[IKerensky]

I am sure many people have posted this suggestion but...

Why not add a spellbook management for the mages , something simple like:

Switching on/off spell he could cast.

Some other spell order can be usefull:

Order him to cast 1 spell continiously. ( so we can give him this as the 5th order ).


This is very bad when you lose undead spellcaster because thet doesnt cast raise undead but go to spell protection or decay

Anyway I would greatly like the possibility to "tweak" the mage spellbook so we can have him serving in the purpose we want without having to hold his hand too much.