Newbie has Questions.

I have been playing Domions2 demo. For the past couple monthes and have finaly ordered the full game. I have also been a lurker at this forum, reading it several times aday.
My questions:
It seems to me that the whole mid-end game phase is all about massing deviles/demons and such, is this true? Do national troops lose their power at this time?
If every one gets devils and demons, how does races like arco, or pyth get them?
When does the late game time start?
On average from turns 1-10 on indie 9 how many provinces you get?
Are Nifeil Giants and Ulm Black templar incredibly powerful in multiplayer as they are against the AI?
As ulm/jotunhiem, whats the best way to take down Mountain Citidals?
Sry I have so many questions.

[Graeme Dice]

Legacyspy said:
It seems to me that the whole mid-end game phase is all about massing deviles/demons and such, is this true?

Not really. All devil armies are only really feasible for Abysia and Mictlan.

Do national troops lose their power at this time?

National troops never lose their power. They just start to eventually be overshadowed by national mages.

If every one gets devils and demons, how does races like arco, or pyth get them?

They don't need them, and instead rely on battlefield magic and their national troops.

When does the late game time start?

Turn 40-70 depending on the map and the number of players and the number of provinces per player.

On average from turns 1-10 on indie 9 how many provinces you get?

I have no real idea for indies 9. For indies 6 I want to take a minimum of 10 provinces by that time. Hopefully, I'll have about 15, and if I've done very well, I might be able to make it 20 provinces by turn 12 or so.

Are Nifeil Giants and Ulm Black templar incredibly powerful in multiplayer as they are against the AI?

Niefel giants are very good troops, although woodsmen might be better against some kinds of armies. Niefel Jarls are every bit as good in multiplayer if you outfit them properly. Black templars are decent sacred troops, but they are also extremely expensive in both resources and gold. They also share the same weaknesses to all magic that other Ulmish units have. I might stick with the 10/24 morningstar infantry with Ulm, and switch to maul infantry when dealing with bane lords and the like.

As ulm/jotunhiem, whats the best way to take down Mountain Citidals?

Sappers and siege engineers as Ulm. Lots of units as Jotunheim. You won't see many, if any mountain citadels in multiplayer.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Graeme Dice said:

Sappers and siege engineers as Ulm. Lots of units as Jotunheim.

Especially Soulless Giants. Besieging castles is one of their best uses (although like any other mindless units, they're quite bad at defending them).

[Tuidjy]

> It seems to me that the whole mid-end game phase is all about massing
> deviles/demons and such, is this true?

Not really. Some players do it, but I personally prefer teams of mages
working together to massed troops of one type. That is not to say that
it is not very nice to have some tough summons protecting your mages.

> Do national troops lose their power at this time?

Many do. Sneaky raiders do not. Massed crossbows have their uses. If your
blessings are powerful, sacred troops can come in handy. But in general, yes.
As early as turn 20-25, national troops are useful only in some specific cases.

> If every one gets devils and demons, how does races like arco, or pyth
> get them?

A 'smart' answer would be, 'with enslave mind'. But, frankly Arco and Pythium
have their own strategies, which involve massing not troops, but mages.

> When does the late game time start?

For me, it starts when the research levels get high enough so that players
can choose between different strategies, in addition to their race's Favorites.
When wars are waged mostly through magic, and front and rear become meaningless.
Usually this happens at about turn 50.

> On average from turns 1-10 on indie 9 how many provinces you get?

It absolutely depends on your pretender, your race, the map, how hard you are
searching for sites, and whether you are willing to attract attention. Some
players on this board expand like wildfire, piss off everyone around them, and
cry like babies once they get mobbed. With Pythium I ideally expand
0-0-1-2-0-2-1-2... on indie 6, if the map is big enough.

> Are Nifeil Giants and Ulm Black templar incredibly powerful in multiplayer as
> they are against the AI?

No, especially not the templars. Your milleage may vary, but in my opinion
Iron Faith Ulm is one of the two races that have no chance in regular games,
i.e. without some uncommon rules or overpopulated maps. The Giants are better,
but unless you are on a small map and your target is without a combat pretender,
you cannot expect them to achieve much.

> As ulm/jotunhiem, whats the best way to take down Mountain Citidals?

No worries. No one uses these in multiplayer. In single player, use the
Ulm Sappers, or just mass giants.

Thanks alot, your answers helped me alot.
Tuidjy, how is it that Iron Faith Ulm has no chance in regular games, also their units are not very different from regular ulm.
You also said that Iron Faith Ulm is one of two that has no chances, what is the other?

[The Panther]

My opinion for the other hopeless theme would be T'ien Ch'i Barbarian Kings.

[Tuidjy]

First, let me say that all personal opinions should be taken with a grain of
salt. Even good players can totally disagree on balance matters. About the
only thing you can rely on is that if a player says that the race he plays sucks
he is either a moron, a liar or both.

> Tuidjy, how is it that Iron Faith Ulm has no chance in regular games, also
> their units are not very different from regular ulm.

The problem is not so much with the units... it's with the mages. Templars
may be better than the knights that base Ulm has, but unless you have an amazing
blessing, they become irrelevant at the same time as their counterparts.

The mages have a random, keep the forge bonus and cost only half as much to
maintain, but lose the second level in Earth magic, and the drain immunity.
On top of that Iron Faith has an enforced drain scale. Research is abismal,
all the forged items are very low level, and your gem income is earth only.
You cannot afford to take a rainbow mage, because you will be stomped in the
early game by a combat pretender. You cannot afford to expand like crazy,
because you will piss off other players, and get mobbed in middle game.
Unless you are extremely lucky with independants, you will be very limited in
your magic, and will be irrelevant in late game.

The one thing that can make Iron Faith thrive in a multiplayer game is diplomacy,
and trade alliances. Now, anyone who wants to play a war game so he can be a
small fish and play nice with the big guys, is welcome to the theme. It is just
not my idea of fun.

> You also said that Iron Faith Ulm is one of two that has no chances, what is
> the other?

T'ien Ch'i: Barbarian Kings. It's even worse than Iron Faith Ulm, in my opinion.
Limited build-everywhere mages, crippled capitol mages, indifferent units, and
enforced turmoil.

By the way, for a good discussion of relative nation powers, search for the
"Dominions 2 Power Rankings" thread.